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Spoilers for the Cabot storyline and the Pillars of the Community group/location

Butch:

Ok, so found sis Cabot, went back, found out they’re 400 years old and dad is in the place with the bobblehead. Saw something like that coming. And there are super raiders. Great. At least I have a wounding shotgun.

Thought the hatch shell was rather well rendered. Nicely done, Bethesda.

Yeah, that preacher man was a bit of a charlatan, wasn’t he? He was all “Give me everything” and even Curie was all “No good can come of this.” One option was to actually do it. I wonder what would have happened.

I talked him into letting the sister go. Then he wouldn’t talk to me any more, so I don’t know if I missed story or theme. But I will say this: Here’s a guy that is trying to make a new “us.” He even admits his “movement” is new. But it’s a fraudulent “us.” There’s nothing to it but self serving exploitation.

You see where I’m going with this, right?

It’s easy for us to roll our eyes at how transparent and dense he is. Even naive Curie sees the sham. But really, aren’t so many of the “us”s in the world self serving in some way? Exploitative in some way? Look at the recent master of US: Trump. Man makes his bones drawing whatever lines between us and them his supporters want to hear. Makes it up as he goes. And what could be more self serving?

Are we rolling our eyes at what preacher man is doing? Or just that he’s doing what everyone else does badly?

Off to bobblehead land tonight. Then, hopefully, off to Old Guns. There’s a trophy with it.

Speaking of which, I also poked around Vault-Tec regional HQ, and either I’m missing something or there’s something there later on cuz I found nary a useful thing. Though the novice terminal I hacked got me the 50 terminals trophy, so that’s a thing.

Feminina:

Yeah, that was an interesting touch, the Cabots’ great age. And with this ‘artifact’ we have kind of a departure from straight post-apocalyptic sci-fi to possibly weird ancient civilizations/alien interference in history sci-fi…I’m still not quite sure where they’re going with that (if anywhere in particular).

I mean, we do have “the alien gun” which I’ve seen mentioned in load screens although I haven’t seen it, so there’s been a rumor of aliens, but it seemed to be presented as unconfirmed. I don’t know if this super-power-granting, life-bestowing artifact confirms it or just makes it more confusing.

I had met those cult people before, and decided NOT to give them everything I owned, persuaded them not to try to take it by force, and then went off and left most of my stuff at a settlement and came back with hardly anything, intending to hand that over and see what happened, but apparently saying ‘no’ to them once locked me out of that option, because when I went back the preacher just said “we have nothing to talk about” or something.

Then when I went looking for the sister, he talked to me about her (obviously, I persuaded him to let her go using my vast charm), but once she was gone he went back to “we have nothing to talk about.”

So I don’t know if there was any story after you give them everything you own, or not. But yeah, it was such an obviously bad idea to follow him, and it’s hard to tell if it’s that his idea is worse than other ideas we’ve heard, or if it’s just that his presentation is terrible. Although apparently it’s convincing enough to get him some followers…which maybe suggests that it’s all about picking your audience, since plenty of ideas/presentations that seem obviously terrible to me are convincing to other (plainly misguided and wrong) people.

Butch:

Well, there’s been tangential mentions of aliens more than once in Fallout games. There was a quest in Fallout 2 where you encountered a bunch of things called wanamingos that sure as hell looked like the xenomorphs in “Aliens.” People in the town sure thought they were aliens, but they were, more likely, mutants. There have been a couple of references to aliens that the Enclave (that is, the dark, dictatorial force that the United States became, which played very heavily in FOs 2 and 3) got a lot of their tech (including the AI tech that became the President in FO3) from aliens, but that’s not confirmed, and dismissed by many as a conspiracy theory. There HAVE been a couple of “alien spacecraft” and “alien bodies” in prior games, but, again, many people think they’re fakes. It’s unclear if they are or not. There’s some people who broke off from the BoS because the Brotherhood wouldn’t accept the “truth” of alien tech being used by the Enclave and others. So there’s some story there. It’s never been totally confirmed, though.

Yup. The preacher is “nothing to talk about” to me, too. I fear I missed some things.

And in terms of his ideas, we’ve seen (and accepted) plenty of folks who pretty much DID give up everything they owned to follow a cause (those BoS dudes don’t exactly look like they’re up to their eyeballs in caps). We might not like them, or maybe we do, but we don’t roll our eyes at them as loonies, dupes or frauds. Most BoS dudes have given up a whole lot of free will to boot. But we’re cool with THEM.

So a hundred guys in power armor with a blimp? That’s a legit movement. Of COURSE it’s ok to expect people to give everything up to join. Some dude in a suit with a campfire? Pfft.

That’s not judging an ideology. That’s judging presentation.

Feminina:

Interesting. So this is another in a long line of possible alien appearances, none confirmed. That’s useful context. And at least we do know this artifact is doing SOMETHING: theoretically they could all have been deluded/lying about being 400 years old, but we actually saw Emogene looking all aged and then youthful again, so there’s definitely something going on with this item. (Also further evidence to be seen later on in the quest.)

But we don’t know what it is that’s going on, and if the pattern holds, may never know. OK, I’ll live with that.

As for the BoS vs. the slick preacher…well…I mean, yeah, I get your point, but I’m not sure that “100 guys in power armor with a blimp is a legit movement, while a guy with a campfire is a scammer” is totally fair. I mean, the BoS is not JUST 100 guys in power armor with a blimp. We know they have lots more guys in other locations, they have a fairly lengthy history in the waste, etc. So, yeah, that’s presentation I guess, but it’s presentation backed up by years of concrete actions (as we know, if you join up some specific things actually happen, like you get bossed around by guys in power armor forever) and by a presumably reliable history of doing more or less what they say they’re going to do, at least in terms of “join us and we’ll feed/house/armor you.”

Slick preacher wouldn’t let us join, so it’s possible some specific things would have actually happened other than he got all our stuff, but he doesn’t have a multi-territory movement, he and the Pillars don’t have a long documented history, we don’t hear anything from other people testifying to the believability of any of his claims to be any kind of important presence…

So I guess I think reducing it to “BoS presentation good, preacher presentation bad” is oversimplified. I get your point that there are similarities in terms of what they actually promise people, and for all we know what they actually deliver, and if in 100 years the Pillars are a small army with power armor and a blimp I will readily concede that the two organizations could be fundamentally the same in many ways, but track record counts for something, and right now, the BoS has a track record, and the Pillars don’t. So joining the BoS does in fact seem like a more logical choice than joining the Pillars, and I don’t think it’s solely because they look more impressive in their armor than the preacher does in his suit.

At least we have some evidence of what the BoS is DOING with their money: buying power armor and blimps! What is the preacher spending his money on? Not giving armor and blimp rides to his followers, based on the ones we see sitting around.

Plus, the Brotherhood didn’t actually ask us to hand over all our worldly goods in order to join, and yeah, some of the people who join may be giving up potentially lucrative careers for the sake of the movement, but I’m sure others are only giving up lives of gourd farming and/or running away from feral ghouls. That bed on the blimp probably looks pretty sweet in comparison to a deathclaw-infested camp in the waste.

I may not really like the BoS, but I’m not going to argue with their claim to be a significant power in this world; on the other hand, I’m extremely doubtful about the preacher’s claim to significance, and this isn’t based on how convincingly they talk about themselves, it’s based on things I’ve actually seen.

In closing, I agree the distinction is not necessarily about judging ideology, but I disagree that instead it’s about judging presentation: I think it’s about judging verifiable results, and I think verifiable results are both distinct from presentation, and a perfectly legitimate thing to judge (indeed, perhaps the MOST legitimate thing to judge).

Butch:

Or the alien stuff is the Enclave. They’re the ones who are supposed to have the “alien” tech, all area 51 and shit. They also have a track record of doing stuff that fucks with people, like an “immortal” AI President with his own radio station. We haven’t seen the Enclave yet (at least I haven’t), so maybe not, but it’s a possibility.

As for the preacher, well, one has to start somewhere. Indeed, in FO1 the BoS are still pretty new and even weirder. Who’s to say this Pillar guy won’t be the BoS in 200 years? Jesus started with 12 dudes, and look how that turned out.

True that people seem to be ignoring him, or seeing him as a nuisance. I haven’t met anyone who thinks he’s a threat to the way of things. Jesus started with 12 people, but he was also seen as enough of a threat that he was executed. No one has (yet) said “Hey, go kill that guy before he messes my life up.” He’s just a weirdo.

But again, one has to start somewhere. Maybe we’re just seeing movements at different stages. He says, after all, that they’re new, and he’s got a point. The BoS didn’t START with hundreds and hundreds of members. They were an odd little cult at one point, too. It’s not entirely fair to judge track record. Just because someone has been doing something longer doesn’t mean the new guy isn’t better.

And wait….. the BoS didn’t ask US to give stuff up, but then, other folks are pissed that we got in easy. We didn’t seem to have to do all the stuff THEY had to do, and that annoyed them. We’re special.

Also, did you just drop “In closing?”

Feminina:

I haven’t heard of the Enclave. They must not have been mentioned in FONV? Perhaps we’ll see more of them later in this one.

Yes, it’s totally true that every organization starts somewhere, and the Pillars could be a big deal sometime, and the BoS started as a band of weirdos. But in terms of “Do I have to take this organization seriously RIGHT NOW?” I think the answer is ‘yes’ for the BoS and ‘no’ for the preacher, based on their demonstrated capacity to influence events. Which I think is about more than their presentation.

Could that change dramatically at any time? Sure. But that’s how I read it at this moment in the game.

In closing, I think you know that I did drop ‘in closing.’ And I’d do it again! I regret nothing!

And on other topics, I got the “highest level of affinity” with Codsworth last night! No romance, but I did get a perk. Now I’ve got Cait and we’re carefully proceeding south towards Vault 95. There are many opportunities to magpie along the way, but I’m trying to keep focused.

“OK, I’ll go look at this place, but only to get it on the map so I can come back later! I won’t go inside!”

Which turns into, “Well, maybe I’ll just poke my head inside…”

Which turns to “Damn it, I really have to go to bed.”

But I’m trying!

Butch:

I don’t think the Enclave was in FONV. Indeed, I remember being rather surprised they weren’t.

They first pop up in 2. Turns out a bunch of USA officials (government and corporate) trucked out to a military base in California (where 1 and 2 took place) and then and, more importantly, a series of oil rigs in the Pacific. They got all this fancy tech somehow or other. Because they are descended from the elite, they think they still are the United States, and the rightful force in all American lands. And, because they all got out to off shore platforms and stuff, they think that pretty much all other humans, except ones that can prove they stayed in vaults, are just as bad as mutants and should be eradicated. Indeed, the opening cutscene of FO2 was a group of dwellers opening their vault, only to be immediately slaughtered by the Enclave.

They are not nice. And they are seen trying to retake Washington in 3.

What IS interesting is the vertibirds. As the Enclave is the only entity in 2 and 3 to have fossil fuel, they’re also the only ones with vertibirds. Indeed, finding the first one (in 2) is a “huh?” moment as all other vehicles don’t work. And now here’s the BoS with a ton of them. Odd.

Fair enough. I ignored the Pillars, too. And they ignored me. They’ll be HUGE in Fo5.

Why am I not surprised there’s locations on the way to Vault 95?

I got distracted coming BACK from the creamery cuz there was this road, and it didn’t seem to lead to an outline, and why have a road that didn’t go anywhere? So I trucked all the way over the ocean, up north of Salem, and hit ghouls, and there’s this sand bar out there with a glowing one on it, which means it MUST have something, right? But I was low on ammo, and just couldn’t be bothered. There’s something.

You also forgot “I’ll look everywhere twice to find the magazine that MUST be here….and isn’t.” That was me last night.

We’re all trying.

Feminina:

Oh, that IS interesting that the BoS now has vertibirds previously only owned by the Enclave! Perhaps they merged…or took over…or made some sort of deal…

Speaking of the vertibirds, they seem to get shot down ALL THE TIME. Practically every time I see one lately it’s crashing in a flaming wreck.

There’s something on that sandbar! Can’t be bothered. Too busy checking out this hospital full of hostile robots, and this junkyard full of hostile super mutants.

Butch:

Interesting indeed. Though in 3, which took place a mere 10 years ago, the Enclave and the Brotherhood were NOT friends. At least whatever branch of the BoS was in DC didn’t like them. But then, 3 involved a bigassed water treatment plant that was pre war tech. The BoS has it, then the Enclave takes it, and the climactic final bit is you taking it BACK from the Enclave. So the game ends with the Enclave running away, tail between their legs. Who knows what they left behind?

Maybe they crash vertibirds all the time cuz they don’t know how to use them yet? Could be.

Can’t be bothered with sandbars. And besides Vault 95, there’s all that southern stuff like Fallon’s Department store that has been utter death to me.

This game is large, isn’t it?

Feminina:

The game is large. Very large. I saw Mr. O’s map the other day, and it’s just packed with locations in areas I haven’t even wandered into yet.

I just went by Fallon’s Department Store last night! Poked my head in, against my own better judgement, and found it swarming with super mutants. Then, reciting to myself that discretion is the better part of valor AND that I don’t want to get bogged down on the way to Vault 95, I beat a hasty retreat. So all I know is that it’s swarming with super mutants.

Could make sense that the Enclave left the vertibirds behind…you’d think in 10 years the Brotherhood could have learned to drive them, but that’s just me being judgy.

Butch:

So large… Ah, well. We have time. Ubi has announced that there’s not even an AC this year. I can kick my feet up and load the wounding shotgun for months.

Remember when I told you the mistake of taking out one suicider then relaxing only to realize there might be more than one? That was at Fallon’s. Boom. Screw that.

Though you know what I did get? This “recon” sniper rifle that has this super bionic square megascope. It practically fills the screen and can see, like, forever. Can boom suiciders a mile away.

Found it in this random chest WAY up high in a building that wasn’t even a marked location. Always be lootin’.

As for crashing vertibirds, hey, you try driving in power armor.

Feminina:

I can pick master locks in power armor! Unless they have to steer with bobby pins, people trying to drive a vertibird get no sympathy from me.

No AC this year? Is that a shudder in the very foundations of the video game universe? Ha.

Always Be Lootin.’ Always. ABL, man, ABL.

Butch:

No AC. But it looks like Watch Dogs 2, which is really AC Chicago and Far Cry 4, which is AC Caveman, so we’re set.

Feminina:

Whew! That’s a relief.

I’ll be sure to…think about playing them…when I have time…hahahahahaha.

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