Spoilers for Boreas’ castle and Hiberheim in Divinity: Original Sin
Butch:
Conference day, no school. Joy.
(Maybe I’M insane and Scarlett isn’t! I’m close, that’s a fact.)
Anyhoo…..
One of those “move the plot” days. Got the kings out, but on the way, freed the elemental that stole a ring and caused a war. Got him to tell me how to get into the treasure room. More on that in a bit.
Freed the kings, as one does.
Then decided to mop up the well before moving on. Trucked out there, and couldn’t find any spell to free him. He was all “King Boreas has it!” and I was all “He’s DEAD dude, and I got nothing.”
So get into the treasure room? Cuz I monkeyed around with stuff by the well and found the thing I need to get into the treasure room.
So then I went to FIND the treasure room, and all I can figure is it’s behind the force field door in the room where I killed Boreas, and I can’t get that to open.
What gives? Did you do all that? Go ahead and spoil.
Then did Icara, and I’m about to jump to the end of time.
So her “So that’s what form you take” sure is suggestive, isn’t it? Hmm. So we’re NOT source hunters, really. Hmm. I must ponder this.
So today I want to talk on the whole treasure room thing cuz I’m stumped, but also, in general game development terms:
What did you think about that cutscene? Or, rather, what did you think about the use of a cutscene at that point? I mean, here we are about 33298575 hours in, and this is the first one we’ve seen. Cuz, for me, at first it was jarring. The screen went black and I thought the game crashed. Then, I thought “What???? Cutscene???” and I was a little annoyed, but then I realized that was really the best way to do that plot bit. Would’ve been very, very long just spoken/written.
But THEN I thought “You know, that wasn’t the only time we could’ve done that, and it would have been nice other places…..”
So I’m torn. It was a good scene, but part of me is annoyed. If you’re gonna DO cutscenes, do them. If not, don’t.
Right?
Feminina:
Dude–treasure room? We…don’t know anything about the treasure room. We must have missed whoever was talking about it. We have not been there, or even tried to go there. Although we did notice the force field in the throne room, which come to think of it made us say “guess we’ll come back later” as we hurried off to the Elemental Forge, and then we totally forgot about it. So yeah, treasure room is probably back there, but I don’t know how to get into it.
OK, I was so confused wondering if we’d accidentally done something I then forgot about that I consulted the internet, and it looks a bit complicated. If you don’t mind spoilers, see the process here.
If you want to avoid at least some spoilers (there’s a whole multi-step instruction set) but just want a hint, here’s the first thing it says: you need to get a book called ‘Forgotten Language of Faery’ from Victoria in Cyseal, and then talk to one of the stone sentries. (Which makes sense…we noticed they all seemed to be animated in some way since they could be outlined in combat, even though they never joined in the battle–thankfully!)
So maybe try that and see what happens. I will probably have forgotten the rest of the spoilers by the time we get around to going back there, but will make a note to at least pick up that book first (hopefully we didn’t already buy it and then sell it to someone else because we couldn’t figure out what it was good for…lord only knows where it might be in that case).
And it sounds as if the wishing well scroll is indeed in the treasure room–someone on a forum mentioned finding it in a desk–so yeah, I guess we’re going to need to get on that.
As for the cut scene…yeah, that was interesting. I kind of enjoyed it, it was artfully done and did get the main points across more efficiently than if she’d just presented us with a wall of text five screens long. But, as you say, why not have done that at some other point since it worked well? It did seem odd that this was the first time we’ve seen this, since the very beginning scenes on the boat anyway.
Also yeah, Icara’s comments about “the form we’re taking now” were extremely suggestive. Not only in that she addressed the two PCs as one character, basically telling us we’re the same person, but that, as you say, she appears to know that we’re not actually Source Hunters. What did she call us? An ‘eternal being’?
Very interesting. And by this point we have to seriously wonder: do the PCs know more than we do (so at some point they’re going to have dialogue in which they reveal their plan to someone else/us like “well, I knew all along that there was something funny going on with the blah blah so I disguised myself as two Source Hunters and etc. etc.”), or has the eternal being that we are somehow blocked its own memory, so that the characters are just as confused as we are?
They never ACT confused, but then, we really don’t get much response from them to Icara’s comments. No “what on earth is she talking about?” from one to the other, no “oops, she’s seen through the clever disguise.” The only thing was the dialogue option with her (right? I’m not misremembering this as her when it was actually someone else?) where you say “of course I’m a Source Hunter!” or whatever, but that could as easily be interpreted as “hush, don’t blow my cover,” as it could be “I really believe I’m a Source Hunter.”
Or maybe Scarlett is insane and Icara is really a hospital chaplain trying to remind her that her eternal soul shines brightly outside the confines of the tiny character(s) in which she’s confined herself.
Butch:
Man, you missed all those dudes in ice prisons, didn’t you? The murderer guy, the ring guy…..
Anyway, freed a dude, and the snowmen were all “This one is the worst…he stole a ring which caused the king to go to war, and he COULD HAVE confessed his theft, but didn’t, and let the war rage.”
Now….that’s interesting, isn’t it? A situation where his real crime was ALLOWING A WAR to happen. The theft of the ring itself wasn’t that big of a deal. It was what came after. I freed him, as, really, you can’t really blame a war on one dude, right? And over a ring? Maybe the kings should’ve chilled. But it was an interesting take on “sin.” Sure, stealing is a sin (we’ve talked about having to do that ourselves). But wars? Usually wars are seen as heroic, even in games. Certainly crusades have been fought in the name of eradicating sin. So that was an interesting take.
And what he offered was the way to get into where the ring was in the first place, or, to put it another way, to let US steal, too. And I was cool with that! I don’t know why I was cool with that, but I was. So there’s some theme.
Hmm. I went and tried to do something with the statues after the battle, just to see what was what, and each conferred a three turn “blessing” of 50% whatever resistance and +5 to geomancer or pyro or whatever. Which might have been handy in that battle. Ah, well.
There was no “talk” option, though. Just use and poof. It wasn’t like they were just talking in gibberish, in a manner that said “Hey, there’s a language to learn, here!”
So I never would have thought of that. I WANT HEXAGONS!
And I certainly never would have thought to go back to Cyseal. I felt pretty damn DONE with Cyseal. Silverglen was getting all set up, there were merchants there (I never thought they’d be in the tavern, but I found them), so Cyseal is the last place I would have looked. It was over, was Cyseal! Though…well…now that I think on it, that wizard we’ve been ignoring is there in the library…maybe it’s his turn to do something and the game is nudging us back to him.
Though not very well. A HEXAGON would be handy.
Actually, now that I think on it, if you can, through bonuses and gear and spells, get your OWN resistance up past 100% can fire or something heal you, too? Cuz that would be a special kind of amazing.
Well, free the guy (all the guys are trapped in crystals in little stone ruins with chests next to them. This guy is just north of the “castle entrance” waypoint) so he can tell you about the medallion you’ll need. Cuz you’ll need a medallion. Which I stumbled upon. I was going full magpie and said “Oh. Cool. There’s that thing. Huh. Never thought it would be there.”
That kind of deal.
I’ll give you my notes on that when you get to it. You’re going to need the medallion.
At least there’s theme. And some puzzles. And a medallion. And perhaps a wizard. But no hexagons. Well, the medallion is, once again, a hexagon.
Just to mock us.
Oh I enjoyed the cutscene, too. It was well done. I don’t need all HZD level of cinematics. It worked just fine. But one cutscene every 40 hours is an interesting call. Yes, it was a big ol’ plot point..but there were other big ol’ plot points. Like, say, actually solving the murder. Jake’s deal could’ve been that. A different perspective, say. Boreas talking about Cassandra and Arhu or something.
So I didn’t mind it. But there was a sense of “wha…..” to it, and “wha….” in any context dilutes the impact of whatever is in said context.
Odd choice.
Yes, an eternal being. And yes, she referred to us as a singular character. AN eternal being, not ETERNAL BEINGS.
I might be right!!! Maybe.
You do say “Of course I’m a source hunter!” or something, and she’s all “Yeah…ok…source hunter…wink wink…” (paraphrasing.) Which, I guess, could mean “Hey, Icara, Bairdotr might be weird and Wolgraff might be mute but he can hear, so, you know, ixnay on the whole eternal being, thing, ok?” And Icara being “Oh, Ok, my bad,” or it could be genuine confusion.
I think it IS confusion, though, as the last time I was at the end of time I had a chance to question the Weaver about that ghosty thing that told us we looked weak and all that. There was absolutely nothing in that dialog that suggested we were doing that and acting dumb so as not to blow our cover. I took that we genuinely didn’t know jack about that, and not “we” the players both the players and the PCs. So that’s an instance of us not knowing what’s happening, which suggests that this isn’t a deal of “Yup, been in on it all all along.”
You’re mocking me, but I’m going to pretend you aren’t.
I didn’t connect “chaplain” to this, but I did connect “doctor.” A) there’s the whole “wearing white” thing again. B), she removed someone from this “world” using Source, which looks more and more like medicine all the time. Who else do we see forcibly “removing” people from the world WITH SOURCE? NURSE Evelyn. Indeed, BOTH Icara and Evelyn removed “crazy” Jake from this world with source. Remember, in my theory, removing someone from here is curing them in the real world. and C):
Scarlett/Roderick have a dialog immediately afterwards as to whether they should continue talking to her and ACCEPTING HER HELP. They can say “I don’t want to,” or disagree. Remember yesterday when I was wondering what it meant that Bairdotr was starting to say “she has a point…” about Leandra? Now, here, the first POSSIBLE nods from the PCs of “Hmmm….maybe….I should listen….maybe….” to someone in white.
Do not mock me.
Feminina:
Yeah, we really do need to get back to Hiberheim. We left a number of stones unturned there. Basically, after Boreas and the Forge we were out of a bunch of stuff and wanted to go shopping, and then when we were done with that the urgency of Hiberheim had faded and we wandered off in another direction instead.
Toward the mines, that is. But we’ve kind of run into a block there anyway, and we do need to take care of stuff in the Winterland. Gotta go back! Though first to Cyseal, apparently, if we want to get at the treasure. Which we obviously do.
And I’m not mocking you…I’m playing along! I’m enabling your delusions, in fact. Clearly, I’M not a doctor.
I’m more like your conniving distant relation who comes in all “ooh, tell me more about the magical land, Aunt Scarlett! And also why not sign this piece of paper that will, uh, grant me access to it so I can learn more and perhaps aid you in your quest? No, no, ‘power of attorney’ doesn’t mean anything important, it’s just the name of the spell…”
Butch:
Oh wandering off is where I’m at. I NEED to shop. That and the game itself seems to be tearing me away here. I saved when I was standing right next to a fucking portal that two major characters jumped through. I’m taking that as a hint.
But you CAN go back, right? Cuz treasure room…..
Though watch….it’ll suck and I’ll have let that guy go for nothing. Cuz irony.
I LIKE my theory! I think it makes perfect sense! What’s YOUR take on all this, then? Where’s the themes, dude? THE THEMES?
I like my theory and I’m sticking to it.
Feminina:
Well, we haven’t tried, but all the Hiberheim waypoints are still on our list, so I’m pretty sure we can go back. I don’t know why we wouldn’t be able to…we can still go back to Cyseal, after all, and we finished the “big battle” there with Braccus.
And I LIKE your theory, I just find it…a little more all-encompassing than seems entirely likely to be true. I mean, as I’ve said, if this is true it’s a HUGE, world-altering twist on the entire game, and I just don’t know if I see them going on to make a second game if they’ve put a reveal like that in the first one.
And I suppose it’s possible that they never did fully reveal it in the first one and that it will only become clear in the second, or something, but that seems like kind of a major “screw you” to anyone who played the first one and took it seriously, so that also seems a bit unlikely (though possible: maybe the reveal was so mind-blowing and awesome that THAT’S why everyone loves no. 2 so much).
So my alternate theory is just “there are a lot of intersecting planes of reality here and some very weird stuff going on in terms of who and what we are, but there’s going to be some explanation that makes sense within the game’s terms.”
Which is a much simpler explanation in fiction, even though in real-world terms it’s obviously by far the more implausible one, which itself is actually kind of awesome. Your wild-eyed, farfetched insanity theory makes way more sense in the real world, while my bare-bones, take-this-at-face-value theory is in fact insane if I actually believe it.
As for themes–dude. We don’t have enough to talk about with religion, sin, the necessity of sinning if you want to gain knowledge, the nature of divinity, the value of human vs. higher law, the definition of what it means to be a “good” person…? I feel like we got some good discussion out of those, regardless of whether or not anyone is insane.
Butch:
Well…uh…besides all that.
What, you can never have enough themes!
Fair point about the gates still being there. And, if they make you go get something from Victoria, I guess you can leave and come back.
Yeah…that sequel thing is an issue. It is.
Well, there is very likely going to be either a BIG REVEAL or a very, glaringly absent reveal, because we know we’re “eternal beings” or some shit. So at least SOMETHING has to be said about whatever the fuck. And we know that Scarlett/Roderick aren’t the PCs in 2. So there’s either going to be an awesome reveal, or a become clear in the second about something big.
And anyway…we’re really gonna harsh on a game for leaving HUGE things up in the air that might be revealed later on? Need I remind you of Dragon Age? A game where we knocked up a hot sorceress with a demon god at the end of one, only to have that NOT COME UP AT ALL in 2? We didn’t say “Oh SCREW this! I’ll never play DA again after this disrespect they have shown my time!” No! We were all “Oooo can’t wait to throw 100 hours at the next one in the hope they resolve this!”
I mean…pregnant with a demon god that’s likely going to be a huge deal in a later game is as close to “Turns out this is all in the mind of the PC” as you can get, really.
Uhh…been home with the kids too long to have a good response to your characterization of my wild ideas. All I can come up with is “Most of the stuff you believe is insane,” but that’s so trite.
Feminina:
Hey, I believe SOME non-insane things. Like, “booze is good.” And “overthinking video game plots is an excellent use of time.”
No one’s going to argue with that.
Butch:
I certainly won’t.
We’re not OVERthinking. We’re just brilliant.
T SHIRT!!!!
Too much kids-at-home time. This is just getting silly.
I just want a nice, normal week!
Feminina:
Those are few and far between these days.
Perhaps we really are insane.
Butch:
Wait….we’re playing a game about an old dude and a redhead (well, a default redhead) who may well be the same person (which we talk about regarding our game choices) who may well be insane (which we may well be).
This shit’s hitting a tad too close to home.
Feminina:
Whoa…DUDE. I didn’t think of that.
I’m not sure if we need to play much more as soon as possible in an attempt to solve all the problems of the universe, or if we should stop playing immediately lest too much knowledge bring about the destruction of all space and time.
Enh. We’re certainly not going to stop playing, so I guess the universe will just have to take its chances.
Butch:
If that’s not a T SHIRT!!! what is?
I didn’t think of it either! Probably cuz I’m so much better looking than Roderick. Hard to make that connection.
You talk about the destruction of space time being a bad thing. Think about it! Maybe the real world is saner than this! Could it be worse?
Feminina:
That’s a really good point. It would be challenging for the world to seem less sane than it does right now. Although it does keep finding ways to lower that bar, so I’m a little afraid to try.
Still, obviously not going to stop playing.
Butch:
Of course, if the world keeps going nuts, there’s always a chance I’ll end up with a sorceress, right?
Feminina:
Don’t give up hope. You just never know. Mrs. McP was the Cute Furry Alien of Death: she could have any number of other secrets.
Play First. Talk Later. 
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