Take Care of Your Equipment

Tags

challenge level, character, combat, console, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Dragon Age: Origins, maps, mechanics, story

More spoilers for that Wrecker’s Cave in Divinity: Original Sin 2

Feminina:

Dude. I don’t want to talk about it.

Heh. Let’s talk.

But I can’t say much it because we didn’t finish the cave. We–Gannibog, Lohse and the Prince–made our way up and around and found that sort of chasm where three passageways all lead into a pit: you may recall what I mean. And we can’t jump over, but the Prince does have Phoenix Dive so he can basically teleport himself for short distances, so he hopped across the pit from the end of the path where we were, to the end of the one near where Sebille’s body was. Then the other two pyramid-jumped after him.

No problem! Then we faced the alien breeding ground full of hatching voidling eggs, vampires and that big storm voidling, and after putting up a good fight, we lost. It was close, though! Fine, we’ll try again.

This time we tried hopping to the MIDDLE pathway and provoking the fight from there so that the storm and vampire voidlings would have to come to us and the bug ones hatching from the eggs wouldn’t be able to reach us because they can’t fly. Good plan! Sound plan.

It was going rather nicely until Mr. O’s controller died and we got the announcement “Mr. O’ has logged out. Returning to main menu. You will lose all unsaved progress.”

Uh…

So basically, after an hour and a half of playing, we actually permanently accomplished, in-game, the following things: 1) picked a mushroom 2) talked to a couple of ghosts.

Not our finest work.

Butch:

Oh dude. Dude. That is the WORST. Just poof? Damn.

But I bet that’s one hell of a mushroom.

But dude, tip: Just don’t fight everything. Get in, get out. Fuck those things. Get close, resurrect her, and teleport out. I got through all of this trying to teleport around as much as I could and fighting as little as I could. Did I leave XP behind? Yes. Do I care? No.

I also managed to find a hole that I could “use” to get very close to the ladder that leads up to the god awful fight I did last night. THAT fight is unavoidable. Sorry.

Or just turn down the difficulty. I won’t judge.

But you might want to save some of your resources until the boss fight. Yes, yes you might want to do that. Yessiree.

And BIG tip: So, after the boss fight, you’ll just want to be fucking done with this cave (if you aren’t already. I sure am. Glad to see the sun and the seashore). You will see the exit and you will want to charge out. Don’t. There’s a room off to the side. It has loot and plot and a hatch, which ALSO has loot and plot and a quest item.

Just remember: You can throw the pyramid. A strong character can throw the pyramid VERY far.

Which ghosts did you talk to?

Feminina:

Remember the couple of possessed dwarves you can fight near that campfire? We killed them earlier, and then we talked to their ghosts. One of them talked about the horror of hiding and hearing screams, and the other one revealed that Mordus (we vaguely remember Mordus) had been after a Deathfog machine.

So Mordus–whom we’re trying to find in part so we can learn Sourcery from him–has some deadly machine AND is presumably responsible for the possession of all these dwarves we’ve been killing.

Check.

Butch:

Check.

He also has themes out the wazoo.

(Spoiler: You’re gonna meet him.)

(You’re gonna love it. It’s gonna be great.)

Feminina:

Oh, undoubtedly. We can’t wait.

Just making sure the controllers are fully charged, that’s the thing.

I feel like there had to be some way it didn’t automatically kill the game–I think my active controller could have taken over, except I didn’t realize my controller had become live (in combat, normally only one of them is doing anything at a time) and I might have hit a button that meant “yeah, sure, shut it down!” when I could have said “no, continue game” or something…surely the controller battery dying isn’t meant to always kill your game, that’s just ridiculous.

But it certainly was maddening in that moment. Who would have thought the controller would become our nemesis?

Butch:

That is pretty maddening. But isn’t there a warning before that says “Controller battery low?” There is. It usually appears where you get trophies, so you HAVE to notice.

You’re gonna want full controllers for this particular boss fight. You’re gonna be there a while.

I’m sorta annoyed at this cave. Sure, there were shortcuts to where you had to be, but even with them, the game is pulling an ACO with this “Hey! We just gave you some plot! Some nice side quests! Narrative momentum! Now spend the better part of forever fighting shit.

Even though I let a lot of voidwoken live, and you didn’t have to do shit like kill that possessed rogue, there was a LOT of fighting. I can’t imagine how you guys have anything left in your inventory all the fighting you’re doing.

We’ve compared these games (rightly) to the old school bioware games, Baldur’s Gate, DAO. They took a lot of good from those games! But dudes? Should’ve left the deep roads right there in DAO. Didn’t need to do that again.

Feminina:

Ha! We just mentioned the Deep Roads last night too!

“How many times did we have to go through Spidertown?” Mr. O’ asked rhetorically, trying to put our repeated failure in perspective.

We called the Deep Roads ‘Spidertown’ for obvious reasons. As we ventured further in and waited for the next group of spiders our recurring joke was, “Welcome to Spidertown. Population: Spiders.”

Ah, good times. Good times. I definitely ran all the way out of the Deep Roads to resupply at one point. Which, I will point out, IS an option here since we’ve discovered a waypoint underground. We haven’t done it, but it’s bound to be a lot easier to zoop to Driftwood, buy some scrolls and potions, and zoop back to the cave, than it was to trudge 50 miles to the underground dwarven city in DAO and then back to the scary combat we needed healing for.

Man, I loved DAO. It would be super interesting to play it again just to see how it holds up, but I’ll probably never get around to it.

And yes, there is a warning that says “controller battery low,” but it comes…you know, 15 or 20 minutes before the battery actually dies! It’s not an URGENT warning. And therefore we say “oh, we’ll just get through this combat…”

It all works out, until it doesn’t. We really need a third controller for backup.

Butch:

I won’t play DAO again, because a) other games to play and b) I fear it wouldn’t hold up. It’s OLD man. We’ve been playing games a long time. I played it at my old house, and that was at least seven and a half years ago. That’s ages in game years. I want my memories to be untainted.

Man! There was a waypoint down there? Missed it. I’ll forgive it, then, as I was thinking how unfair it was that there was no real practical way to restock. My bad.

That might’ve made last night easier. I was pretty much out of everything. I had one damn resurrection left, and had used pretty much everything else, so my options were limited. I had to get DAMN creative. I so would’ve restocked given half the chance, especially as there’s plenty we found down here to sell.

I did a lot of zooping through holes and fissures. Maybe too much. Though I was being clever.

There is a waypoint as soon as you get out, though, so I have some small comfort.

Feminina:

Yeah, there was one on a statue in…one of those cavernous passageways full of voidlings that all look the same. We were pleased to see it. The fact that you didn’t see it really underscores how much of a weird maze that whole level is, though. I mean, we feel like we’re really poking around and trying to be thorough (good loot! so many paintings!), but I’m sure we’ve missed stuff.

Ah well. It’s a big game, can’t loot, see or talk to everything.

Butch:

Ah, see, I got about 27% into it and said “No fucking WAY I’m gonna be thorough. Keep your fucking paintings.” I found that shortcut hole and was like “so long, suckers.”

I got enough loot out of it. And a quest item that promises yet more.

I’m glad to be out, man. Glad to be out. No regrets.

Feminina:

We’ll probably be here for weeks. We’ll be discovering entire towns down here. Probably full of giant spiders and darkspawn that found their way over from another game.

We’ll emerge after Valentine’s Day and you’ll be all “I’ve explored another whole continent and met five new Sourcerers and learned so much about being Divine!” and I’ll just point at my pile of darkspawn body parts that I plan to eat later and say “worth it.”

Butch:

Have heart! There is a way out! And you CAN avoid a lot of this. You know. If you guys weren’t…you guys.

Yeah, you’re gonna be down there forever.

Voidwoken, dude. Darkspawn was that other game.

Feminina:

I know, man. That was the joke. We’re going to be down there so long we’ll be finding things that are leftover from other games. Older games, that we played long ago.

And I’m not really worried about getting out. After all, we can ‘flee’ back to any waypoint anytime we’re not in combat. (Which is occasionally.) Thanks to previous experience, we know we could even bring Sebille’s body with us (magic pockets, I guess…? It’s convenient, so we don’t ask too many questions. I’ll just assume everything is magic pockets, because magic pockets are awesome).

We’re not concerned about getting stuck. As you said, we’re more concerned about getting every single loot item and experience point that can be found. Someday when we’re level 33 1/2 and you’re only level 33, you’ll regret your decision. Ha.

Butch:

Well, if you meet Morrigan, send her my way.

Dude, I’m kinda worried about the levels. You hit 11, and I’m still 10. I’m leaving XP on the table, here. There were a couple of things in fort joy I didn’t do, either. Add to that the fact that there seems to be quite a gulf between levels. Level 10 baddies? No sweat. Level 11 baddies? I’m dead.

And I have a feeling that, on the other side of this cave, the game expects you to be at least level 11, and maybe close to 12.

Which I ain’t.

Feminina:

And all up in the north of the map stuff is level 14, which was destroying us a few days ago.

There are a couple of Sourcerers around there that we need to talk to at some point but who, at this time, are just blasting the hell out of us. I think the game really wants us to do stuff to pick up those levels…or else we need to do other things that will give us an in with the people who currently aren’t interested in doing anything but insta-killing us.

Which is entirely possible.

The game does not encourage linear progression.

Butch:

It does not.

14? Shit. It takes a while to level, so 14 is a ways away. And we’re not even in Arx!

(That’s not a spoiler, as I’m not entirely sure we’re going to ever get to Arx, or not sure that Arx isn’t a part of this particular map, but given all the hinting, I’ll be rather stunned if there isn’t a bigassed thing to do in Arx.)

Or this is it, one or the other. But I kinda doubt it. Frankly, I’m a bit confused as to what it is I’m supposed to be doing at this time. My map has more flags than a college marching band.

We’ve talked on the flags, and how this game handles quests in general. I’ll add another small gripe: It’s not always clear what’s main quest (or, at least, something that’ll move the main story forward) and what isn’t. Unless it’s fucking obvious (go kill shriekers and get on the boat!), who the fuck knows? I’m fairly certain the game wouldn’t let you trip the endgame five levels before you’re ready, but I’m not altogether sure. I wouldn’t put anything past this game.

Try to play a lot this week. I have a slight feeling that I’m about to do something you aren’t gonna do. Yet, anyway. I’m curious to see if you get to do it anyway.

Feminina:

That is so true. All the journal entries look the same in terms of importance, all the flags are either red or yellow and sometimes it’s not entirely clear why something is one color as opposed to the other…there’s really no way to tell what’s a ‘main quest’ and what’s a ‘side quest.’ I mean, we can kind of guess that helping a guy in a barrel escape Driftwood isn’t plot-critical, but who knows? Maybe it is! There’s no way to know for sure.

Also, of course, they’re very intentionally making a lot of different ways to get to some unstated critical point in each stage of the story (as how there were several ways to get out of Fort Joy into the wilderness, and several ways to get our collars off), so maybe helping the barrel guy–or not–IS critical in some variations of the story but not in others…man, their David Cage-style flowchart has got to be complicated.

I’m quite certain we’re going to end up in Arx at some point. Whether or not Arx is somewhere on this map, or a completely different one, I don’t know, but we’re going to get there eventually.

Butch:

Well, it’s not quite the flow chart. David Cage has twelve billion different endings. This game, I think, don’t know, might have many roads but they all lead to the same place. Well, maybe you ally with the magistars or the dwarves or the elves, but I have a feeling that the Big Climax is gonna be the same no matter what road you take.

Though it was a bit of a twist to have two main characters (three in your case) get shown the door in act one.

If they’ve really been shown the door.

On that……

As you know, I’m running with Beast and Sebille. I have no lizard, and I’m getting exactly zero plot or even mentions of lizardkind. Are you cuz you have the Prince?

Feminina:

Yeah, we had a conversation in the cemetery when we found the part where they burn lizard bodies, and then more recently in the arena we met a lizard who gave the Prince a tip on where to look for this super-dreamer lizard he’s been looking for. So his quest is advancing, though slowly–as they all seem to be.

Did you go back and talk to the ghost in the merchant’s room, in the tavern? The one who said “hey, I’M the real merchant!”

Well, we killed the fake merchant, and before the fight he sneered at me about how I was looking for…whoever…and would never find him, blah blah. I think he’s in Arx. Maybe the lizard too. So we’re going to go there.

But anyway, yeah, stories are slowly unfolding. Except for Gannibog, who has no backstory. Poor, rootless Gannibog.

Butch:

Sure did talk to that merchant. It was pretty obvious that I should, as he was marked as Ifan’s main quest. Had to talk to him, and his fake beard fell off when Ifan talked to him. It was a little awkward, cuz they seemed like they were friends….then I killed him.

I think Ifan and Sebille are headed to quite the collision. Or not.

Guess who’s side I’m gonna be on?

Feminina:

Oh man, that would have been quite the drama of our Ifan was still alive and I’d kept flirting with him!

Ah well. We shall never know.

Next Steps Uncertain

Tags

challenge level, character, combat, Divinity: Original Sin 2, loot, mechanics, story

Spoilers for Fort Joy stuff in Divinity: Original Sin 2

Butch:

Did a bunch last night, and I have questions.

So decided that Fane was more interesting, and Ibn/Sebille was going to go badly, so switched back to Fane (I keep typing Thane. It’s really, really like these guys were bioware fans). Went back to the elf cave to fill everyone in, and the same thing happened with Lohse. Decided to ride it out, figured the game wouldn’t kill me. So the fight happened and they subdued me. What was interesting was that I still controlled Lohse, and I could opt to pass or whatever. Everyone was an enemy, but it wasn’t one of those deals where the computer takes over and makes Lohse attack. So I passed, and they subdued me, and I apologized and all that. The elf understood.

So I talked to my party, and Beast and Fane were all “The FUCK man,” (paraphrasing) but…Sebille was all “Interesting…I understand…”

Hmm.

So then spent WAAAAY too long looking for the button to get into the hatch to get out. Found it, went down, was confronted with a door I couldn’t open. Was pissed.

So went back out, went to the beach, used that sand pile the elf told me about.

Did a whole bit with fire slugs. Did you do the bit with fire slugs?

Then got into the prison bit, which, it seems, is where I would’ve gotten had I been able to open the door. All roads lead to the prison bit. Or at least two do.

Talked to dudes. Notably, I talked to a dwarf who was in an unlocked cell. He told me all about the “thing” in my head, and said his master could help, and that they were both experts on “head demons.” What did he say to you?

And then talked to the guy who had been tortured. Now, if you missed it….remember the magistar lizard that got executed for helping people escape? Well, if you ate (eww) a piece of her, the memory was of this guy. Had that chat….

I am VERY curious: What was the very, very last thing he said to you?

Then I found the houndmaster. Oh dear, the houndmaster.

The houndmaster killed me. A couple times. I….killed his dog? Once?

Gave up on the houndmaster.

And here’s where I have questions.

There is this big door. It goes to the main floor. I opened it (or Fane did), and everyone was all “are you sure? There’s probably a lot of magistrars….”

Now, usually when a game does that it means “you’re not tough enough to be here yet.” But the game sure seems to be herding me that way. I can’t think of anything else to do.

On the other hand, I do not doubt my wimpiness. I have shitty gear, I’m level three, I suck. But I have no idea what else to do!

What do I do??????

Feminina:

Wow…I’ve been eating pieces of people on occasion, but I do not remember talking to a guy that the dead Magister remembered. Missed that bit, I guess.

We also talked to the dwarf, but there was nothing of significance in the conversation, perhaps because Lohse wasn’t with us. We may get her soon!–Mr. O’ is kind of tired of how often Fane dies, especially because we have no way to heal him in combat since potions are damaging. So we’ll see.

We talked to the fire slugs! I told them Braccus Rex was dead and agreed to spread the word that the princess was accepting offers of marriage, and we didn’t have to fight them. Thanks, fire slugs!

And the dungeon…we eventually got through the fight with the houndmaster, and some more fighting. There’s a sort of master-torturer down there that you have to defeat. Eventually you can win past everyone in the dungeon and there’s a way out through the sewers into the Hollow Marshes, or a random kid with a boat who will take you to pretty much the same place. We went with the kid on the boat.

But there’s a lot of fighting in that there dungeon first. Conveniently, the ‘silent monks’ basically ignore you, but there are other people who aren’t so polite.

Butch:

Well, shit. So should I be there? Am I ready to be there? I can’t think of any other way to toughen up, though. Did I miss a bunch of quests? What level were you?

OK, so, if you eat the dead magistrar, the memory is just “Verdas! Verdas! Verdas! Noooo!”

So, after the fire slugs, I suppose you met a scared lizard who was escaping and all anxious. She mentioned the guy being tortured in the next cell. I go into the next cell, and there’s that poor guy who’s a mess and dying what do you know, it’s Verdas! He’s all a mess, like he’s “feeling every emotion at once.” He talks about being “Hollowed out from the inside,” almost like he’s….you know what I think about this game. Like he’s someone who, in real life, is a patient here, being “cured” by these experts.

So, at the end, he did something that made me ponder what I’ve been pondering all along: He’s all “I’ve seen you before….” then, in a new dialog screen, which makes me think this could be different based on who was talking to him, he “reared back his head and roared like a bear, and said no more.”

A bear.

And now…….my theory.

I think we’re still in the metaphorical delusion of the first game. I think we’re seeing the same story, or a continuation thereof, from a different perspective, but I still think we’re dealing with, not just people struggling with their own sanity….not just people, THE SAME PEOPLE.

Hear me out.

Our six characters:
A pain in the ass, full of himself Prince (kinda like Jahan, no?)
A fighter who was betrayed by his superiors and is now working against them (Sounds kinda like Madora, doesn’t it?)
A wild haired woman who is struggling between finding her freedom or obeying something she doesn’t want to obey, who just got roared at like a bear by someone who saw her before and who likes to sing (Bairdotr),
Someone who can pick locks who is missing a crucial piece of his identity (Wolgraff)
Someone who can know the fates, know the thoughts of others, almost as if she has been here before (Scarlett) and
Someone who is strong, a protector, and actually says “I can be anything you want me to be” BEFORE the whole “what class thing,” almost like he’s a dream (Roderick.)

Could be trope, sure. But these guys are good writers. Very good writers.

You put this with the human cat, the quasi hospital, the fact this game started with a shipwreck…..

I’m keeping an eye on this.

Feminina:

Interesting theory. Very interesting. It’s odd that Scarlett and Roderick were the key players in the last one, the two without whom the story does not move forward, but they’re just interchangable members of the ensemble here–but I suppose the last one could have been their specific delusion while this is…an ensemble delusion…?

Or was your theory really that the whole thing (i.e., the world of Rivellon) was SCARLETT’s delusion last time, and she and Roderick were the same person? I know I speculated for a while that they were actually aspects of the same person, although that interpretation wasn’t really supported by the story at the end.

And oh yeah, I do remember talking to Verdas before he died, and how he said he was being hollowed out. Hm. I kind of took it as, this ‘cure’ takes away the Source, so the victims are being ‘hollowed out’ in that their connection with this power in being forcibly pulled out of them somehow. But the power could certainly be a metaphor for their madness. Another interesting bit here is that in this game all the characters are Source users, with specific powers that are currently ‘muted’ by the collars…that wasn’t the case for all the characters in the first game, right? But under your theory, maybe they’re all just delving deeper into their dreamworld and setting up this key connection in their minds, or whatever. Or ‘Scarlett’ (or whoever is the primary dreamer) is doing it…I guess…

Back to the…uh…real-game-world…in the dungeon,I would say you need to be there, since that’s how we got out, but that might not be the only way out.

There was also the guy who said he could take ONE person out but not a group, and maybe that would be another way? We discounted him utterly because we’re playing together, but as a single player, maybe you could teleport out with him and then plan to come back for your companions later? (Returning to Fort Joy once you’ve been out IS an option, the waypoints for the beach, etc., continue to be available for fast travel.) I have no advice on that because we didn’t deal with him, but you might consider it.

Also, there’s the Beast’s plan to take a boat…we haven’t traveled with the Beast yet, so we didn’t pursue his plan at all either, but again, it might be a way out if you want to add him to your party. Considering how complicated this game is, it’s entirely possible that the way we got out is not the only way to get out. I mean, just the way the journal entry sets it up “take the well-known way, take the hard way, make your own way” or whatever, that suggests that there are multiple options. I initially assumed that all the options would eventually lead to one path–say, the dungeon–but that might not be true at all.

I think we did it through the dungeon when we were the same level as the people we were fighting, so…3 or 4? But you’re right, we also found that after a while there wasn’t much else we could do to toughen up: we’d fought everything we could find to fight around the fort and on the beaches (void turtles, etc.). We did fight Griff and all his people, as well as Migo, so we got some XP for that. Presumably that would not enough to make the difference between “you can handle this dungeon now!” and “you’d better not come in here…” IF the dungeons are the only way out, but if there are other ways, it might be key.

As long as you’re there, are there any doors with locks that Fane’s bony fingers can pick? Have you gotten to the part of the dungeon where you deal with Withermore’s soul jars? I feel like maybe that was on a different floor from the houndmaster. Is there a way to go down? I think maybe it was down.

Honestly, though, I got very confused every time we went to the dungeon, there are so many doors and levels, so I can’t swear to the accuracy of my memory of the place even though we were there only a couple of days ago.

Again, maybe talk to that dude who wanted to take one person, and/or the Beast? Sorry. This answer is less than helpful.

Butch:

I’ve not met that guy, and Beast is no help. Sigh.

Well, it may just be that this world is all just a metaphor for insanity, or, put another way, what sanity really means. After all, I still do think our heroes are in an asylum…yet they’re our heroes and those that would “help” aren’t. It’s sort of an extension of our “what is human” talk in the last game. Because, if you want to go forth with titles, which we did in the last game, why “original sin?” Original Sin is knowledge, right? Opening your eyes to see what’s “real.” There’s nothing inherently Biblical in these games, and yet there’s that term in the title. That term is there for some reason, and imploring the player to think on “who’s eaten the apple” and “is that a good thing” is as good a reason as any.

I’m going with Rivellon being a metaphor for in/sanity. One of the last images of the first one was Zixzax telling a crowd of elves that “there are many more stories,” in a room of files, like a record room. Rivellon could just be one real world hospital, and all these people patients, and the game superimposing a metaphor on them all.

There’s just too much in these games like that. This isn’t grasping at shit because there’s no other shit to grasp onto.

Well, this is the first time we’ve been in something that screams “hospital.” Here we are, our “powers” muted, waiting to be “cured,” wearing identical gowns, eating bad food, allowed some freedom but not allowed to leave. That’s….I mean, c’mon.

And, well, Scarlett and Roderick were Source users tasked to hunt down bad source users, I think. They would’ve been chucked into Fort Joy, for sure.

Interesting you said “dreamer.” When I met the expert dwarf, he did some thing where he put hands on Lohse, and was shocked, and said “It’s too power to know for sure, but it could be a ghost, a demon, or a WAYWARD LUCID DREAMER.” Emphasis mine. Whatever that is.

Beast did mention that plan when I met him, but I’ve been travelling with him ever since and he hasn’t said boo about building a boat since that first meeting. Maybe it’s a FONV deal where I have to be at the right place with him at the right time, but, at least for now, he seems to have moved on from that.

There must be multiple options. I still don’t know how the whole “press the button in the statue” thing is supposed to go, because all that got me was a locked door. Where’s the key? Or do I just have to be good at picking?

True, I didn’t fight Griff or Migo. I got XP for handling it, though. And I haven’t fought those turtles. But still, that can’t be, like, three levels worth of XP. And my gear still really sucks! I have dudes with no real armor! That isn’t helping.

I have not found the soul jars. I did pick everything I could find, and successfully, too (save for that one door right when I came down the hatch, but that’s cool, cuz going through slug land gets you to the other side of it). Maybe there’s some shit past the houndmaster? I dunno. I have not been past the houndmaster.

Dungeons be confusing like that.

The good news is that, on the main floor, where I am now, there seems to be a red flag on the map, some lever or other. Red flags are good. Red flags mean progress.

Or certain doom. Or both!

Progress and certain doom are not mutually exclusive.

T SHIRT!!!!!

Feminina:

That guy (whose name escapes me) is wandering around Fort Joy with a red flag on him. Which suggests that he is potentially a useful plot point for something–possibly escape!

Maybe check the map for people with flags on them in Fort Joy and go talk to him. As I said, he was very insistent that he could help ONE person escape, which was no good to us, but might be worth exploring for you.

Although you’ll have to go back and fight the void turtles, because one of them ate the teleportation gauntlets the guy needs to make his brilliant plan work. Maybe you’re tough enough for the turtles now. This could be the break you’ve been looking for!

Butch:

Man, I’ve talked to all the red flags that I can find….is he in the fort itself?

The other frustrating one is I talked to a woman who claims she can remove the collars, but won’t, and now she’s a red flag, and she said “I won’t because I don’t respect you” or some shit, and gave no clue as to how to earn said respect. The quest is all “Get her to remove the collar” and…..HOW?

Have you done that?

Feminina:

Oh, Nebora…yeah, we talked to her, and she doesn’t respect us enough to take them off either. I assume we have to go out and do brilliant deeds in the world to impress her, but I’m not sure–we haven’t made any progress in that regard. Did you go into the Arena? Another group of people we apparently have to do something impressive to make headway with, although I’m not at all clear on what they can even potentially do for us.

This guy with the teleportation plan was totally walking around inside the fort proper. Just ambling around on his own, and when we talked to him he said he’s looking for one person to help him with this plan. He’s got to be there!

Hm…the internet says his name is Gawin. And apparently it’s not turtles that have the thing he needs, it’s crocodiles. I get monsters confused. Anyway. Some XP there so even if you don’t want to split up the party (which seems like a bad idea if we’ve ever seen a movie), you might be able to level up enough to face the houndsmaster and get out through the dungeon the way we did.

The internet also suggests that if you sneak successfully you can avoid the Magisters and get out through the keep into the swamp, and/or pick up (I assume this means steal) useful gear inside…which perhaps would equip you better for fights in the dungeon. We did not do this: none of us are really sneaking at all. But if you’re sneaky, you could give it a shot.

Butch:

WHAT swamp? There’s a swamp? Where?

Jeez.

Well, I played some, and killed the houndmaster. Yay? I used up pretty much everything I had (yay?) and got nothing in return save a prison key (which, may be handy? Yay?) and a pendant that I can’t wear cuz collar. Yay.

I’m not sure that was worth it……

But hey! XP! And I feel good about myself!

Why did I do that? Was that important at all?

And dude, you can totally steal from your companions in combat. Why did you sweat the fact that only one person had resurrection scrolls? I had my dudes drinking potions out of other’s magic pockets the whole fight.

Feminina:

Even when the other person is dead? Because that would be handy.

Transferring things among ourselves while we’re all alive is not the problem–losing access to someone’s stuff when they die is where we’ve been concerned. Although maybe we just didn’t look at them from the right angle to get the ‘loot’ button the first time, and then assumed it was impossible and never tried again! That would be silly of us, but is entirely possible.

Yay you! You killed the houndsmaster! And yes, killing him and getting the prison key is what we did. I think we also used up pretty much everything we had in the fight. Because all that stuff is no good to us dead! Now go unlock some doors with the prison key, get in some more fights…you’ll be out in no time!

Maybe go back out of the dungeon and buy some more potions from Nebora before proceeding. I believe that’s also what we did. Because there are more fights ahead!

Have you discovered sleep-healing yet? That kind of changed our lives. If there’s a bed, you can lie down in it and sleep and recover! Not in combat, obviously, but afterwards. If you haven’t discovered that, now you know! Enjoy!

By ‘swamp’ I just meant the Hollow Marshes, which is where you end up when you flee via the dungeon. It’s outside the fort. Don’t even worry about it.

Butch:

Dunno, man. I didn’t die.

Hooray. So that key is useful?

Dude, if I go back to Nebora, I’d have to go all the way through slug land to get back. The damn teleport shrine is on the other side of that locked door, and, for some reason, the prison key doesn’t open that. If I zoop out, I’ll zoop back to the locked door. This is possible, but an incredible pain in the ass.

I did discover that about bedrolls! We all have a nice lie down after every fight. Nothing shakes off hideous burns and poison like a good power nap next to a bone pile.

So the thing you use to escape the fort is….outside the fort?

That seems a tad redundant.

Feminina:

Noooo…the swamp/Hollow Marshes IS what’s outside the fort. It’s not useful FOR getting out, it’s just where you end up when you DO get out. It’s literally just a location. You’ll end up there at some point. Don’t even worry about it.

And it’s true, going back to buy more potions does mean slogging all the way back to/through the dungeon again. We did that a couple of times. It’s a lot of trekking and hassle, but we really wanted the potions/scrolls because we were afraid of death. Your mileage may vary.

Butch:

So you never figured out the whole point of the Most Useless Waypoint Ever. I was so happy when I found that, cuz I was all “Phew! A way out to restock then zoop back” but no. What’s the point of a waypoint in an impossibly locked room? And kinda unfair that you could find it if you did it one way, but if you did it through slug land no waypoint for you.

This game seems less generous with waypoints than the last game. This is not an improvement.

Feminina:

As far as we’ve seen to date, that waypoint isn’t right next to a way out, but we’ve used it just to zoop to the dungeon and then walk to the part that does have a way out. Which comes after some more fighting and a stunning (not that stunning) revelation about what the Magisters are doing down there.

So yeah, it’s not AMAZINGLY useful, but it’s not nothing. And yes, there do seem to be fewer waypoints, although maybe we’re looking back through waypoint-colored glasses, because when I think about it I also distinctly remember frequently having to walk about 50 miles from wherever the closest point was, to get to where we actually wanted to be. Like that whole lower right section of that one map, it was all kind of a maze with one inconveniently located fast-travel point in a random place.

Butch:

True, there was that. But Cyseal proper had one every three feet.

Although, now that I think on it, it wouldn’t do me much good cuz I’m kinda poor as well.

I should’ve killed everyone.

Feminina:

We’re still very poor. We keep spending all our money on resurrection scrolls. It’s obviously worth it in the sense that we’re still alive, or more accurately alive again, but it does mean we have very little spare cash.

Butch:

Yeah, those are very, very key.

But somewhere along the way I learned restoration as a skill.

I gotta get teleport and resurrect as well. But restoration is pretty great, especially when every damn thing is on fire.

Feminina:

I have first aid. It’s pretty handy, although it doesn’t help Fane at all.

I also got Bloodsucker as a spell, which lets you absorb the blood you’re standing in and heal a bit. Cleaning up AND feeling better! It’s a win-win.

I want to get Leech eventually, which does the same thing but for free as an attribute, not an action. Seems appropriate for a character who eats flesh.

Butch:

Leech was so great. Scarlet had it. And this game has blood everywhere. It’s like every enemy just explodes into a healing potion.

Feminina:

I like that. Enemies exploding into healing potions! Heh.

I also want to get Morning Person, so I come back at full health after resurrection. That’s great in the middle of a battle. But it takes a long time to be able to load up on those attributes.

Butch:

Yeah they’re stingy with them. And I still get confused with abilities vs skills.

Game is a tad complicated.

Feminina:

A trifle. Almost like…some old physical-world game we used to play, with a lot of rules…turn-based combat…lots of stats…weird effects to keep track of…what was it again?

It’s no use, the memory is lost in the mists of time.

Butch:

I remember that! It involved pizza and annoying rules lawyers.

And pizza.

Feminina:

At least this game tracks its own weird rules.

Butch:

But lacks pizza.

Now I want pizza.

Just Say NO to Love Potions!

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, character, combat, family, morality, plot, romance, story

Some spoilers for things along the main plot in AC: Odyssey

Butch:

I forgot it’s Monday.

Sums up this wonderful family weekend.

But I finished the Lagos bit and I have many, many thoughts.

Even got to play more!

Went over to the next main quest line, met a couple of blasts from the past, killed, what, three dudes, spent a great deal of time looking for Thebes (you’d think she’d know where that is), finally found it, called it a day.

So if you did any of that, or Lagos, I got thoughts. Hoowhee, do I have thoughts.

Feminina:

Ah, Lagos! See, I tried to do it Brasidas’ way–ignored all mom’s tasks about burning things and killing people and went right to Lagos. But he attacked me anyway (although he did say “thanks for saving my family”) so I had to kill him, and then Brasidas got all mad. I wanted to say “dude, I tried, back off!” but whatever.

The thing is, I had previously killed a couple of his captains and burned some stuff just while passing by, because they were location objectives, so maybe he heard about that and that’s why he didn’t trust me. You won’t have killed captains in passing–you tell me! Did you get him to renounce the cult?

I also did some other stuff, we we can start there.

Butch:

I did not, but lord knows I tried. I did burn his stuff because I didn’t want to deal with bodyguards, so he was pretty dejected when I found him.

Here’s how it played out for me.

I go in, all “denounce the cult,” trying to be nice. He says “You expect me to believe that after what you did to the Monger?” Like, whoa. An NPC reacting to how I decided something all those levels ago, in a way that MAKES SENSE. I tried to be all “Dude, not this time. Really. Leave the cult,” and he’s all “I can’t trust you…but at least you are giving the honor of dying like a Spartan,” and he attacked me. Brasidas was all “Great, we’re gonna starve.”

So, here’s really my story line, as I did stuff in a different order than you did: I did the brother’s blue quest (remember that? Way back when?). The big nasty loan shark was all “I’ll only forgive the debt if the Monger dies in public.” So I decided to kill the Monger in public TO HELP THE NICE GUYS one of whom I slept with. ONLY that reason.

Fast forward to now, and, all of a sudden, I can’t talk my way out of a situation, people are going to starve, because of a decision I made to help a couple of brothers in a side quest.

MAN that’s good.

First, it’s so non linear. That quest was a DLC. You didn’t have to do it at all. You could’ve done it whenever. So I’m sitting here, having this experience of “Dude, I just doomed people to starvation because I was trying to be nice to this poet guy,” and you’re not. Few people are. That’s damn good non linear storytelling.

Second, and this is the big one, games usually tip their hands on the consequences of Weighty Game Choices. I had absolutely no fucking idea that killing the Monger in public would lead to any impact later on, especially an impact that would prevent me from peacefully saving Spartans from salvation. Usually, when a player is all “Hey…wait…I didn’t mean….” there’s a way to let the player off the hook. This didn’t.

It also goes WAY back to when we were talking on the helpful load screen tip “Save before you make Weighty Choices” and our discussion on when, or if, it’s cool to reload, and how people want their game to be THEIR game. Here, the only way I could prevent Spartan famine and do what I wanted to do was to reload a save from, like, 35 hours ago and who’s gonna do that? We THOUGHT this game was one of those “Hey, save, pick an outcome, it’s cool, whatevs” and maybe it isn’t.

This game is like a toxic girlfriend. Every time I’m this close to breaking up, she does something awesome.

Feminina:

That’s true, he did say that to me too! I was too busy being annoyed at Brasidas for acting like we didn’t even TRY, but you’re absolutely right, that was a very good callback.

In my case, I killed the Monger in public to please the hetaerae, not to help the brothers, but same deal…my long-ago decision, made with absolutely no awareness of any possible connection, comes back to haunt me. Well, not me. I’ll be fine. It comes back to haunt the Spartans, I guess. But it’s very true, that’s a nifty way to make something a long time ago actually mean something now. Like the bit with the plague on Kephallonia.

So we’ll give this game that: it’s good at making stuff we did come back in different (yet logical) contexts.

And also speaking of decisions we made a long time ago…did you go after the Boeotian champions? And run into…someone? I thought that was interesting too.

Butch:

I ran into two someones! More on that in a bit, I’m still on Lagos.

But how Lagos is even better than the plague is that the plague, at least, was transparent enough that you could guess a possible outcome. Letting sick people go could make people sick. That’s a logical connection, so, when it happens, you can be all “Yup, kinda knew that was a possibility.”

But “If I kill this guy this way instead of that way, people will starve to death” isn’t anything you could even begin to predict. That’s very, very rare in games.

Feminina:

True, the plague and people getting the plague connection was logical. Less so was the reaction of the Pythia when you arrive (either “you saved those people!” or “you let them die!”), although that didn’t really have a huge impact on the game overall since she still gave you the information you needed.

Though we could also argue that this bit doesn’t have a huge impact on the game overall either, if by that we’re referring simply to our own experience as players. I feel bad–sort of–that a bunch of Spartans may starve (I mean, we’ve talked about our mixed feelings regarding the Spartan Way before, and if they’re too hungry to attack Athens with as much vigor, am I really that broken up about it?), but I doubt it will mean anything terribly significant to the way the game winds up for me.

I could of course be wrong! Maybe we’ll end up reviled in our native land because we left so many people hungry, where we could have come out of this as heroes.

On the other hand, we DID win Sparta an Olympic wreath, so they’ll probably forgive us. “Hey everyone, enjoy looking upon my pankration wreath as you watch your children suffer and die! Feels better, right?”

Or, maybe they’ll be so hungry they’ll attack Athens with MORE vigor to get their food, and this will turn out to be the thing that propelled Sparta to victory! After all, as the load screen tells us, the Peloponnesian war ended with Sparta occupying Athens. (Thanks for the spoiler, GAME.) Whatever we do or don’t do, we’re not going to change that history.

Regardless of the level of the impact on gameplay, though, I do agree with you in terms of respecting the way this game has given us a completely unforeseen consequence of a decision made far away while we were thinking about something else entirely. It’s a nice example of the interconnectedness of things.

Butch:

Well, gameplay aside, I do feel kinda bad. The whole starving, famine thing isn’t just limited to soldiers. We’re damning kids and whatnot to starve. That’s not very nice.

Another nice touch that I just thought of about the whole interconnectedness of things was Brasidas’ little “Told you so” moment. “If you had just done what I said….” Usually, “told you so” moments are eye rolling. Like:

“If you do that, my planet will explode and I will be sad.”
“What, this?”
KABOOM!!!!!!
“See? My planet exploded. I am now sad.”

Here, Brasidas gets in a “Had you done what I said, this wouldn’t have happened. I, important game character, was trying to guide you and you done fucked up” thing, but it wasn’t explicit. Back with the Monger, he never said “Wait! We might have to talk a cultist into leaving the cult! They’ll never trust you if you do this!” Never. His “Told you so” moment was, kinda, not really one, cuz he never told us THAT.

That, too, is a subtlety you rarely see in games.

I dunno, man. Now I’m starting to think that things might matter re the endgame. After all, we didn’t expect the whole Monger thing to matter. We were all “What, he was gonna die at the end of this quest anyway, so what?”

But, as you want to talk about the dudes we ran into, this would be a good segue, unless you want to do the segue yourself.

Feminina:

You mean Stentor? And stepdad? How about them, right?

Man, Stentor does not like us. But stepdad was chill. It was kind of cool he showed up again, and presumably if we’d actually killed him way back in the day, we would have had to kill that one champion ourselves, so that was an impact (if, again, not a huge one). I was perfectly happy to have him killing people for me–I can share the work. And his talking about how he could help Stentor be a better commander than he (the Wolf) ever was…maybe that’s some delayed impact as well, since presumably the Spartans will be better off now.

Maybe partially making up for all the people we doomed to starvation.

Butch:

Yeah, them.

See, I didn’t like this (so far, I’m not finished with the quest). I had the same reaction I had to the lameness of the end of Markos’ “story. When we see Stentor, the game obviously wants us to be all “DUDE! It’s the GUY!” and care a lot, but it’s hard to do that when we haven’t seen the guy since what was effectively the tutorial. It has been a very, very, very long time since we saw ol’ Stentor. The whole “step brother I never had who hates me” dynamic wasn’t particularly established in the twelve thousand hours between when we met him and now.

It almost read like Stentor was a bigger character in some earlier draft of the game. When we met him, gold armor, early in the game, he sure as hell felt like he was going to be a main character, more than just someone who pops up again in the endgame. The whole idea of dad leaving the Spartan army to him, the fake son and not his real (but still fake, complicated, AC, you know) daughter… That all seemed like story line that got left on the cutting room floor.

I felt the same way about dear old dad. Sure, he finished a quest for me and, at this point of the game, anyone who finishes quests for me is a-OK. But he kinda got the Markos treatment. He shows up out of nowhere, there’s a pat little conversation during which things are rather summarily tied up, and scene. Not “Oh hey! I found mom! And did you know my real dad was all freaky and has seen Atlantis? And DUDE why didn’t you tell me that bro was, like, a cult weapon?”

None of that.

And one would think that Kassandra might want to chat with him about that, at least a little.

We kinda sorta but not really let the whole “why didn’t she talk about Phoibe?” thing with Markos go because it was possible that you could get to Markos before the whole Phoibe dying bits (I still think they could have changed some dialog, but I digress). Here, there’s absolutely no fucking way that you can get to this point of the game, seeing dad, without knowing about mom, real dad and brother. None.

Thus, this should’ve been a more fleshed out scene, which is a let down.

Feminina:

Wait…I told him I found mom. He said “you found her! where?” and I said “ruling Naxos” and he said “that sounds like her,” or something, with this kind of reminiscent smile. So it wasn’t a huge conversation, but it definitely came up and we shared something. Which was more than we would necessarily expect considering we’ve only seen him the once since we were 8 years old and he tossed us off a cliff. I mean, Morkos raised us, I think the lack of any kind of follow up/closure with him was way more egregious.

As for Stentor, I felt that Kassandra, like me, had to remind herself who this dude was, and that she was a little startled he seemed to feel so strongly given I’ve barely spared him a thought the last six months. I played it kind of jokingly (but perhaps not such a joke) cocky, like “the gods have answered your prayers, I’m here” or whatever, which probably didn’t exactly endear me to him.

I dunno, it worked all right for me.

Butch:

Really? I didn’t do anything like that. Indeed, we talked about Stentor, which I thought would be the last thing Kassandra would want to talk about with him, considering all the other shit. I mean, come on, Kassandra got thrown off a cliff trying to stop the Wolf from throwing her brother who is now a cultist off a cliff. Wouldn’t you think a “do you know that the kid you chucked off a cliff is now kinda a bad guy?” might have come up. Instead, I get five minutes of dialog about some dude I met in the tutorial.

And yeah, her caring about some dude I, too, had forgotten about was jarring. All the more reason I think that three or four scenes between then and now that would’ve set this up didn’t make it into the final cut. The game sure acted like Kassandra and Stentor had some kind of relationship, but given that it’s established she met him in the tutorial and, thus, has seen him a grand total of twice in her life, I didn’t buy it.

And this on the heels of such a well thought out, interconnected series of events.

This game is so fucking inconsistent.

Well, did my day playing.

Rescued a horse. Got distracted by Hippocrates. Did his shit. Killed the last champion.

Pro tip: Don’t bother rescuing the horse unless you want to help a nice shopkeeper.

Not much to say, unless you, too, got distracted by Hippocrates.

Feminina:

That’s weird that you didn’t mention mater to stepdad. Maybe there are mutually exclusive conversation trees, and we just got onto different ones. Because we did talk about Stentor, but certainly not only Stentor.

Also interesting that it’s coming across to you as Kassandra caring about or having some kind of relationship with Stentor, which is not supported by the text (so to speak). I really don’t have the impression that she gives much of a damn about him beyond vaguely knowing who he is and that he’s a big deal in Sparta, which makes much more sense given what we’ve seen. Perhaps also different dialogue options?

Of course I rescued the horse. The merchant gave me helpful information about where to find Drakon! Of course, the lover gave me exactly the same information, so I could have just done that. Did you talk to the lover? That was interesting. Quite a twist on the usual cute romance tale. “Here, I’ll get you this potion and pretend I’m doing it to be helpful but really I’m planning to kill your true love while he doesn’t have his armor.”

Of course I also got distracted by Hippokrates. I got distracted by him TWICE, in fact. So if you’re doing the one where he’s torn about whether or not to treat an evil slave master, be aware he has another quest in Thebes to come. Which is quite interesting, actually, but optional, so I’ll respect if you’re just not in the mood by then.

Butch:

Well, “relationship” to the point where she seems to have a strong opinion of him. My reaction was “The fuck is this guy?” whereas she has some deal of emotion. I dunno. She seems to give more of a fuck than she does about other people.

No! I missed the lover! What could I have done?

I will say that flammable oil didn’t do me any good. I chucked a torch, missed, ran, just did a fight.

I rescued the guy, freed the slaves, told him we can’t judge (which is ironic, as we do all the time). I do wonder if his “Only the gods can judge” to us, given we’ve been judging all the damn game long, was a loaded line. Are we a god?

Is there another thing for him?

Feminina:

You really only needed to talk to one person–the lover or the guy who lost his horse–to get the information, so you saved some time only getting the horse. But the lover was interesting…you go to the exclamation point and it’s in this gym where a guy is training and making mournful noises about how he’s afraid he’s losing Drakon’s love.

So you chat with him and he says “if only I had such-and-such ingredients, I could make a potion that I can smear inside his armor and it will soak into his body and make him adore me forever! But I would have to keep his armor for a while…”

And Kassandra says “are you sure he’ll be OK without his armor?” and he says “oh, he’s mighty like the gods, he doesn’t need armor!” or something, and then you can offer to go get the herbs he needs. Then after killing some bandits on this lady’s farm you take the herbs back to him and he does this gleeful dance about how great it is that Drakon is going to love him, and sings a little song about how close Drakon’s training location is to this other spot where they can meet. He’s totally doing the “dorky-but-adorable-young-person-in-love” thing, and it’s kind of funny, but with this weird ominous undertone of “by the way, I’ll be taking this information and using it to murder your lover.”

Which I then immediately did. So the moral is, don’t trust random helpful strangers? (Except in 90 percent of the game’s quests we’re a random helpful stranger who doesn’t actually mean any harm.) Or, don’t take your lover’s armor? Don’t try to keep your lover through magical trickery?

Anyway, I felt a little bad about it, although just to be clear, I DON’T really condone trying to keep a lover through magical trickery. It’s interesting, too, that this is the second time we’ve had a “love potion” quest, and also the second time it’s gone horribly wrong for the person wanting the potion, because love potions don’t actually work and are just someone (the “witch” in the previous quest long ago, or Kassandra herself here) trying to use someone else’s desire for their own ends. I’m sensing a strong anti-potion theme here.

Did Drakon have armor when you fought him? He didn’t for me. It was a very quick fight because I snuck up and backstabbed him and then used a couple of abilities whose names I don’t know. I didn’t even try the flammable oil.

As for Hippokrates, I did wonder about that “only the gods can judge” line. Is he saying Kassandra is a god (or a demigod, at least), or is he pointedly reminding her that she’s NOT a god, and that she in time will also be judged? Anyway, I told him he should heal the guy, and then–I thought this was amusing–knocked the guy out and ‘recruited’ him for my ship. That’ll keep him from abusing any more slaves!

It was a fairly interesting philosophical question, though, and quite relevant to today given all the ‘conscience clause’ arguments we’re having about whether pharmacists can refuse to give out birth control and so forth.

SHOULD a physician treat all patients regardless of how horrible they are as people? I mean…yeah. Of course. But…what if they’re REALLY horrible? Wouldn’t it be super tempting to refuse? “Screw you, slave-torturer, I’m not treating your boar injuries!” And yet, once you start drawing lines, pretty soon you’re refusing to treat someone because they worship the wrong god, or have the wrong color skin, or want the wrong pill, and then people start judging YOU.

This is only one of the many reasons neither I nor Kassandra are doctors.

And yes, Hippokrates has another quest, also on a topic that’s still controversial and relevant today! Not abortion, I don’t know if they’d dare to touch that. A different hot medical ethics topic. Good for some discussion, if you want to spare the time. But it does involve the usual three things to fetch, I won’t lie.

Butch:

Man, I didn’t even see the lover quest.

Whoa, man. That’s some cold shit. “Sure….I’ll get him to love you….IN HADES!” I’m kinda glad I did it my way. I didn’t sabotage young love (knowingly) and got a dude his horse back. He really seemed to like that horse.

Hey, you don’t know the potion wouldn’t have worked. You killed the guy before he could come under its effects.

As for trusting helpful strangers….remember way back when when I met the lady claiming to be the Monger’s fiancee? Well, I finally killed the mercenary she wanted me to kill (because in Arkadia they ALL CAME AFTER ME).

It had….an ambiguous ending, and trust was kinda a theme.

Two way trust. I’m still not sure about what I did…. You never did that, did you?

He had armor. Yes, yes he did. Big, tough, pain in the ass armor. It was a fairly long fight, actually. You did it right.

HA! That’s fucking awesome that you recruited that guy. I always forget you can do that. I wonder if you can do it to cultists.

Don’t you work at a medical school? Scary.

Well, the only line I know of the Hippocratic oath is “First, do no harm.” Hippocrates didn’t do any harm here, per se. That was the bear. So he wouldn’t have broken the part of his oath that I know.

Of course, for all I know the second line is “Second, treat everyone, even evil slavers.”

I, too, am not a doctor.

Three more things…Jesus, really? I already DID three things for Hippokrates in this game. One’s in a fort, too, isn’t it?

Feminina:

Ah, so the armor did make a difference. Hm. Well, at least you didn’t cruelly take advantage of young love. My fight was shorter, but your conscience is cleaner.

Actually, librarians have a similar code of conduct: help people get the thing they want (if it’s legal) even if you disapprove of it. If that dude comes in looking for literature on 500 Reasons It’s Good and Right to Torture Your Slaves, I have to help him find it if we have it in the collection, and let him check it out if it circulates. That’s my job, and it’s not my business to moralize about it or try to prevent him from seeing it.

And I’m not sure if it’s in the dude’s oath or not, but the logic likewise goes that if it’s the doctor’s job to treat people, the doctor needs to treat people and not moralize about it. But I’m sure when they’re terrible people, it must sometimes be kind of tempting.

The things you have to get for Hippokrates’ next quest are not in a fort! I don’t think so anyway, because it just said “a wealthy house” or something. But I’m not completely sure which house, because I got the quest to steal some things and then it turned out I already had them, so clearly it was some location that had a question mark on it that I had already looted in passing. But the good news is, it’s in Thebes, so you won’t have to go racing across the map.

Oh, and then you have to go find some more herbs, but that just involves riding out of town a ways, you don’t have to get into any fights unless you run into wolves or something.

Oh, and I did not do the Monger’s fiance quest–I told her “yeah, I killed him” and got a red FAILED noticed, and we went our separate ways. You can spoil.

Butch:

Just when I thought we were making progress….three pronged herb quests return.

There’s a librarian’s code? That’s…..kinda awesome.

“I DESPISE YOU! But, you did fill out your hold form correctly, so here’s your fucking book. And, as tempted as I am to say it’s due in two weeks…..I have to tell you three. But I’m not happy about it.”

As for the financee…So I think I got tricked.

We’ve talked about merrily killing dudes, but not taking quests that are about selfish personal feelings (“Kill her lover so I can step in!” etc.).

So if you get the quest, it’s called “Grieving Widow to Be.” I figured that was a play on “wife to be.” But, when I killed him, I go back and I can recruit the quest giver to my crew. I did (as one does) and she’s all “Well, I’ve always wanted the freedom to sail the seas” or something about freedom.

Which got me thinking. What if it’s “Grieving widow to be” as in, she’s going to be a widow? After all, why the hell didn’t she know I killed the Monger? Everyone else does. Why was she so “sure” that mercenary did, when he obviously didn’t? She never offered money; she was playing on the guilt angle, the “avenge the fiancee” angle.

I don’t think she was the Monger’s fiancee at all. I think she tricked me into killing her husband.

But I’m not sure……

Especially as, when I went to read the bios of the mercenaries I killed one was “He never wanted to be a mercenary…his wife made him do it. Maybe she should have been one, as cold hearted as she is…” but I don’t know if THAT’S the one cuz so many came at me!

So I’m not sure.

You got the failed quest because you obviously weren’t gonna fall for the trick. YOU know the mercenary didn’t kill the monger, right?

Feminina:

I mean, we have professional ethics, man. I’m sure lawyers do too (all the jokes aside).

And interesting about the monger! That’s cold, all right.

A bit roundabout, since if she’d just said “my lying husband cheated on me and then ran off with my great-grandfather’s handaxe” we would have been all HE MUST DIE, but…cold. And that backstory is suggestive. Hm.

Maybe she just didn’t realize she didn’t need such a complicated lie.

Also, we ARE making progress! Real, serious progress! I swear!

Right after Thebes, basically, I went back to Sparta, talked to the kings, dealt with the cultist king, fought my brother…the end is near!

Well, less far, anyway.

Have courage.

Butch:

Do you have to serve the people who…..

….I can’t even say it…..

refuse to whisper? Or is that beyond the pale?

Feminina:

Oh dude, WE don’t even whisper anymore. Whispering is so done. I’m more likely to not serve someone who does whisper, because I can’t hear what the hell they want.

“SORRY, DID YOU SAY YOU NEED A BOOK ON TORTURING SLAVES? COMING RIGHT UP!”

Butch:

Nothing is sacred. Nothing.

I knew we lived in troubled times, but this is it. The surest sign yet of the end of civilization.

Feminina:

I’M SORRY, DID YOU SAY YOU NEED BOOKS ABOUT OVERTHROWING CIVILIZATION? LET ME SHOW YOU TO THAT SECTION IN THE STACKS!

Butch:

Dude, whispering in the library is the very cornerstone of civility! If we, as a nation, nay, as a species cannot rely on librarians holding the line against such unbridled barbarism, what can we rely on????

Also–WHOA already?

But I’m STILL only level 44! I can’t fight the brother!

Shit. I’m gonna have to magpie, and this will infuriate me. If I have to do busy work to progress, I just might rage quit.

But yes! I think she tricked me! And, what’s more, I reloaded to do the quest cuz fuck I’m not failing a quest and missing out. I reloaded to do a quest that I wouldn’t have done had I not been tricked!

That’s pretty great.

Feminina:

Well, I’m exaggerating, we do still speak quietly. Because people are studying! But seriously, actual whispering is counterproductive. I’m not even deaf yet, and I can’t make it out when people come up to the desk with that.

And you’re good–the recommended level for that battle is 38.

Butch:

Oh, it’s not a question of deafness. You just can’t hear them over the fan.

Feminina:

Ha! Good point. I really need to upgrade.

Butch:

The game is taking pity on me.

That said, I should be able to kick Minotaur ass rather handily, and that isn’t happening.

Is it a shitty, annoying, throw the controller in fit of rage fight?

Feminina:

The minotaur? It’s a long, chipping-away-at-a-giant-robot type fight, yeah. I didn’t find it that terrible once I put it on easy, just lots of running around healing while shooting at him, but it was definitely not a piece of cake.

Here’s a tip: I wrapped up the Atlantis bit and afterwards the dialogue basically says “in case some people don’t complete this quest, let us never speak of it again.” (Not in so many words, but that’s the gist.)

So it was kind of interesting, but it apparently has no real bearing on the main story, and if it’s driving you up the wall, you can just abandon it.

The brother fight, on the other hand, is not that bad.

Butch:

Wait, Pythagoras didn’t tell you shit out of deference to me?

Huh?

You did all that for nothing?

SO glad I’m letting the Minotaur be.

Man…..a chip and chase fight. I…don’t like those.

Feminina:

No, no…Pythagoras told me stuff, and things happened, then at the end I said to Herodotos and Barnabas “OK, I’ll tell you what happened, but we can’t tell anyone else because Atlantis secrecy mankind whatever.”

Which I interpreted as “in case someone didn’t finish this questline, there will be no major impact on the main story.”

Butch:

I’ll ask you later. And I’ll go “Ooooooookaaaaaay.”

And then suggest we take a long break from Assassin’s Creed.

Feminina:

Sounds like a plan. Progress!

Things We Will Buy

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, console, DLC, story

Very minor spoilers for AC: Odyssey

Butch:

Well it’s Monday and I’m already burnt out.

I love life.

Didn’t play any more, so we can dish on the end of the Kassandra as god quest, or if you did a side quest with two dudes accusing each other of stealing from each other’s treasury we could talk on that. Oh, and scanning old news!

https://blog.us.playstation.com/2019/10/08/an-update-on-next-gen-playstation-5-launches-holiday-2020/

Here’s more:

https://kotaku.com/the-playstation-5-will-launch-in-late-2020-and-yes-i-1838869958

Feminina:

Well, I’ll buy it.

My latest phone uses USB-C, so we’re already making that transition!

Butch:

Oh we’re going to buy it. That’s a given. I just read these to give myself something to look forward to.

Feminina:

It is important to have things to look forward to. We’re going to be so excited a year from now, we’ll barely be able to type.

I’m glad they’re sticking with PS5 instead of giving it some new name. Continuity is fine, everyone. There’s nothing wrong with it.

Plus, as you mentioned, the cool V shape ties in so perfectly with the Roman numeral. They’d be fools to miss out on that.

Butch:

I’m down with it just for the load times. I feel like I lose a huge chunk of game time just to loading this game.

“Hit X.” “Checking for additional content.” ****Butch goes and makes dinner**** “Still checking” ****Butch has a drink**** “OK, Main menu. Continue? Good.” ****Butch reads 1985749857 game tips.**** ****Butch falls asleep****

Though the SSD thing does kinda scare me. For it to be even close to affordable, how the hell are they gonna get a TB of space in there? If it ships with 500 gigs, and each game is at least 100, that’s a damn small drive, even if it is fast.

Makes me very nervous that the one thing we don’t know about this thing is how much it’s gonna cost.

Feminina:

Yeah…very true. And also true, if it comes with a small drive, how much will we have to spend on backup storage if we want to avoid having to delete all the game files as soon as we’re done with something, just to make space for the new thing? I mean, we have PS+, but if we didn’t? Maybe you kind of just have to have PS+ to make it workable. In which case, how much is the price of that going to potentially go up?

Not that we really ever do go back and play anything again, so in theory we could really just delete everything anyway…but we MIGHT. We MIGHT, damn it!

There’s DLC, I guess. I needed my Witcher 3 saves when I played the expansions. And heck, if there were another big expansion like the last ones, maybe I would play it! Aside from the giant robot vampire monster boss fight in the last one, I enjoyed them.

Butch:

True. This is all very true.

But man….I’ll get it, don’t get me wrong. But I sure hope it ain’t north of five hundred bucks.

Not sure how I feel about those triggers, either.

Feminina:

I’m intrigued by the triggers, but yeah, we’ll have to see how it turns out. Sounds like something that could be kind of cool, or could be just gimmicky.

Butch:

We’ll have to live with it whether we like it or not. Sigh.

OK, tried to get back to playing before the kids come home and I’m depressed.

Mopped up a bunch of question marks around the Olympics. Fine. All well. Then, the last one, leads to me having to visit (how many? Say it with me) three statues to get stuff. I open the map and I notice that I haven’t even BEEN to, like, 30% of the map. The things I need are places I haven’t even been. At all. Ever.

I’m 70 hours in.

Femmy…….I don’t want to play this game forever. I’m playing on easy. I’m doing quests. I’m not magpieing. I’m charging ahead.

And there’s STILL all these places I haven’t been.

Femmy…..I don’t want another 40 hours of this. We have to be getting close. Right? RIGHT?

Feminina:

It seems like we really must be!

I mean, once we’re done at the Olympics, we have to go win the war in Boeotia or wherever, which will certainly involve a bunch more people needing us to do three things, but that feels like it’s the final thing we have to do before returning to our rightful place in Sparta or whatever, so…we must be on the downhill side. Surely.

Butch:

But….there’s still all that map….

Feminina:

Surely there are SOME portions of the map we don’t have to explore in great detail…? Surely.

I mean, there were some nice lands with no question marks at all that we sailed past on the way to the Bay of Hades, right? Some of the map must be just map.

Possibly.

Butch:

It’s just….

Getting later into fall here. Been playing this since May.

Feminina:

So…looks like there are nine ‘episodes’ to the main story (each composed of multiple quests), and we’re in the middle of episode seven. Also, eight and nine don’t have nearly as much stuff in them. Nine looks like basically just wrap-up.

So we really are on the downhill side. We clean up this Olympics thing and the war in Boeotia thing, then we move on to whatever’s in episode eight which is going to be the big finale battles, and nine will be the closure as we enjoy warm cakes in a rose-covered cottage or whatever.

It’s gonna be great.

Butch:

I don’t believe it. I won’t believe it.

Half of my damn cultists are still alive. I still haven’t even found Medusa or the other thing.

At least you have. If you have to do all this cultist new island bullshit, at least you have fast travel points. I’ll let you take care of it all for me. I like this game well enough, but I’m looking forward to something different.

Thank GOD Death Stranding looks different.

An AC game with a “wrap up.” That’s funny.

Feminina:

I’m beginning to think maybe you don’t actually have to kill all the cultists or the mythical monsters. It’s probably going to be one of those “your ending will be different depending on whether you did xyz, but either way you can get to an ending” things.

Possibly even the ending won’t be much different. Mom certainly doesn’t seem to care at all whether or not I completed dad’s thing. And dad never leaves Atlantis, so what’s he going to do? Send me a harshly-worded message via Ikaros?

Butch:

He’ll make you do math homework. Kinda his thing.

I’ll take any ending. I’ll even skip warm cakes.

Monster Busy, Come Back Later

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, combat, making games, monsters, story

Some spoilers for mythical monster quests in AC: Odyssey

Butch:

Well, I can tell you a little about the Minotaur. I can tell you it’s hard as fuck. VERY hard. Well, not for you, but for me. And I’m mad. Not annoyed, mad.

See, I’m level 38 at the moment. This should be ok. Why? Messara, on the map, is all 34-36. This would seem to indicate that the overall challenge is for those levels, and I am higher than these levels. Indeed, Messara had been easy peasy. I was cruising. Kevin had no chance.

When I got the three pre-Minotaur chores…uh….quests, they were all level 34! No problem! All good!

So I got the thing from the fort (seriously), rescued the dude from the other dudes (sigh….), and killed the town baddie who turned out to be a cultist (I feel like I’ve done this before) and got the doohickey I needed to get into the labyrinth. Huzzah!

I open the door to the labyrinth. The “go get the Minotaur” quest pops, and, in big red letters: Your target is two levels above you.

What. The. Fuck.

What game sets you off on a quest line at level 34, in a level 34 place, and winds you up with a level 40 boss? That’s a bunch of bullshit.

I was so mad. I decided “Fuck this. I came all this way, I’m gonna fight the thing anyway. What difference could two levels make?”

Quite a difference, it seems. I even turned it to easy. Couldn’t kill it. Couldn’t come close.

Now…..I think I have reason to be pissed off here. I don’t THINK this is an instance of “You have to go kill Kevin to level up to proceed.” We talked about that, and how angry I’d be. I don’t think it’s that, and more on that in a second. But game. Do not plop a level 40 thing in the middle of level 34 things, ESPECIALLY when all the quests leading up to it are level 34. “Here’s this whole quest line! You worked so hard! Now fuck off for a couple levels before you can finish!”

GAH!

So I decided I had to do something, so sank a cultist boat and went to see mother dearest.

Spoiler: When you get there, there’s a big ass plot dump.

And more quests.

Sigh.

Feminina:

Oh, damn. Ouch. That is quite cruel. It didn’t happen to me, because I’m higher than level 40 (I’m sure it will be whatever level I am when I get to it), but that is pretty mean.

I was so dedicated! I had some question marks left on Lesbos, but I ignored them in favor of sailing to Messara. That is how much I care for you and value your sanity. Although maybe to preserve your sanity you should be puttering around some question marks on Lesbos.

Anyway, I took the kid’s fleecing tour, talked to the guy who apparently runs the Minotaur challenges, and did the first couple of pre-trials.

And dude, cruel though it be, this is definitely the funniest island yet.

“The Minotaur’s only weakness is stabbing. Especially with sharp objects.”

“Are you ready for honor and glory? Are you ready for CERTAIN DEATH?”
“I’m ready for two thirds of that.”

“The Prize of Pephka is drachmae looted from the dead?”
“Well, many of those drachmae go to support the orphaned children of defeated challengers!”

“The Trial of Accurately Finding My Sons has been completed!”

(I completed the Trial of Accurately Finding the Sons even though two bounty hunters were stalking me at the time and I had to pause to murder them both in the tall grass. I love fields of tall grass!)

Anyway, I still have to do one trial and apparently rescue a dude from a fort before I can face the Minotaur, and I have not talked to mom, so you’re ahead of me. But now you may know: did mom tell you you have to complete dad’s quests, or could you just skip them and move on with the main story if you want?

Butch:

AH! We diverge! I shall say nothing. I was hoping you’d do this. Curious to see how it ends for you.

As I did none of that. Indeed, never even been to Pephka.

Because of COURSE I miss the funny bits.

What was the trial of accurately finding his sons?

Mom hasn’t mentioned dad much at all, but then the next thing I have to do is “talk to her” again. When I asked her about Pythagoras, and said “he would’ve been older than 100…” she just said “He looked young for his age.”

Awkward.

I’ll let you know when I talk to her. Oh! And met that dude who saved us from the burning warehouse again! He’s chilling with mom! I knew he’d be back.

Feminina:

Wait…are we even in the same place? Isn’t Pephka where you have to go to face the Minotaur? That’s where I came to face the Minotaur.

There aren’t TWO minotaurs in this game, surely. Or maybe there are. Oh…it looks like Messara and Pephka are two sides of the same physical island. Maybe we landed on opposite sides and thus took different routes to the combat?

Because I landed at the first port I came to (I was being pursued by a bunch of ships including one with a cultist that I kind of wanted to defeat, but I was taking heavy damage and on the verge of desynchronization, so I fled to the nearest harbor), wandered 10 feet off the ship and met a kid who offered a tour, told me amusing nonsense, and then asked for 3000 drachmae or his big brothers would beat me up. That’s steep for an amusing nonsense tour, but I didn’t want to kill the kid’s family, so I just paid it.

The I wandered another 10 feet and talked to a guy who apparently controls who gets to fight the Minotaur. He assigned three ‘pre-trials’ to prove I’m cool enough to face the beast, and one of them was ‘The Trial of Accuracy’ which turned into ‘The Trial of Accurately Finding My Sons’ because the guy’s kids had run off.

I still have to do I think the Trial of Endurance, and then I can face the Minotaur, or not.

Pephka is also where the occasionally-mentioned Arena is located, and one of the cultists is apparently to be found there, so I might have to check that out as well. I’ve got a lot of cultists left.

Butch:

I’ve said too much. All I’ll say is I’m very curious as to what happens at the end of this particular quest line.

Very curious, indeed.

What were the trials? What did you have to do?

Feminina:

There was the Trial of Strength, where I was supposed to fight some guy but he said “you could just pay me to give you the token that says you passed,” and I thought “enh, 1500 drachmae, that’s cheap compared to a scam tour and I’m not worried about the fight but it would take up valuable time,” so I paid him.

Honestly, at this point if I could just walk up to military camps and say “I’ll pay you to loot the treasure and kill your captain for me” I would do it to save valuable time.

Then the Trial of Accuracy was supposed to be about shooting arrows, but turned into “find my missing sons.” Which was not difficult except for the two bounty hunters who were coincidentally trying to kill me at the time.

And the third trial involves swimming, according to the guy who assigned it, although I haven’t done it so it might turn out to be something else entirely.

So basically I’ve been totally cheating at all the tests so far, but hey, that still proves my worthiness to fight the Minotaur because cheating (or ‘creative tactics’) is an important strategy against a more-powerful opponent!

Butch:

I shall say no more. No more at all.

I’ll just be over here trying to LEVEL THE FUCK UP as quickly as I can.

Stupid levels and stupid stupid.

Feminina:

You could go to Lesbos and work on the pre-quests for Medusa. (Of course there are quests you must undertake before fighting her!) Might give you some levels and then you’ll be ready to go on that too.

Butch:

Dude, Lesbos is minimum level 44. If I can’t beat the minotaur, I ain’t touching medusa.

Maybe some main story will help. Though watch: it’ll be, like, nine XP for this, when killing salty bear would’ve gotten me 84754857. Cuz this game.

Feminina:

Oh, sorry. I guess I haven’t paid attention to levels in a while, because everything seems to be officially the same level as me. I suppose I’ve just gotten to the point that everything is scaled to me and I’m ‘allowed’ to tackle whatever I want.

So…yeah. Main story? Or Lost Tales of Greece? We still haven’t checked in on our old flame in wherever that was.

Although if you do a Lost Tale, I will be compelled to drop everything and do it too, because they’re usually interesting and I won’t want to have missed out.

Butch:

I’m too wimpy to even get to the lost tales of Greece yet!

But that’s cool. I’m right between the two main quests, so that’s probably what I’m on next. Connect with mater and all that.

Really, having that level forty shit just pop out of nowhere was just plain mean.

Feminina:

That was mean. And odd game design, because as you say, why have a whole island of stuff at the right level, and then throw that one thing at you? Why not just make the whole island off-limits if you don’t want them to defeat the thing that’s probably the main reason they’re there?

Weird. And cruel.

Butch:

Exactly! The three lead up chore quests were all 34! That would lead one to believe that the main boss wouldn’t be, you know, SIX LEVELS HIGHER!

Weird.

Shit, even the cultist I found was cake. The sea faring cultist off the waters of Messara was cake! And, in the middle of all of this, an impossible minotaur.

I don’t get it. And it maddens me.

Feminina:

Understandable. Completely understandable.

Seafaring cultist, you say? Cake, you say? I think I ran into that guy and he was not cake, but then, I also accidentally involved two other ships in the combat (why would you sail directly into the middle of a naval battle, I ask you?), so it was getting kind of messy. I must go back and try to find him on his own.

Butch:

Yeah! I killed the leader, found out the cultist was sailing around just east of Messara, took him out. I might have been fueled by rage. Rage makes things easier.

I’m down to the last sea faring cultist! Until the main one. Yay, me.

We’re going to be playing this forever and ever and ever, aren’t we?

Feminina:

Yup. Forever and ever and ever, until the last syllable of recorded time. It is our destiny.

Butch:

This is getting depressing.

Feminina:

It’s going to be great. We’re gonna love it.

Getting the Party Started

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, character, fashion, music, plot, story

Some spoilers for story in AC: Odyssey

Butch:

Now that was a motherfucking dress ball.

Hiding playwrights! Drunken singing contests! Bisexual orgies with goats!

I mean, no sorceresses in stunning, I mean STUNNING green dresses but hey, no dress ball is perfect.

I feel, though, that I may have missed something. I always get nervy when someone is all “are you SURE you don’t want to leave?”

I also feel that, while that was fun, that it didn’t serve much of a purpose except historic name dropping and saying “OK! Athens time over! Off you go to other places! Here’s a trophy for completing chapter four!” There wasn’t a whole lot of plot, per se unless….

………and here’s what makes me nervous…….

……..they’re setting us up to know all of these folks so that, when they come back later, we understand all their dynamics and interactions and all that shit.

Femmy, I cannot tell all these dudes with beards and hairy chests and names I can’t spell apart when I’m actually AT the party! I’m not going to remember who was arguing with who about what six weeks from now! I’m not going to remember who supported who or who was jealous of who! If this was the game all “OK! This will all be important later! Do you understand?” then my answer is an emphatic “NO! No, game! I do not! And, if I do, I won’t remember!” I’ll remember the orgy dude cuz he was named Allie and didn’t have a beard or a hairy chest so he stands out, but other than that, I’m doomed.

One always remembers the orgy dude.

T SHIRT!!!!!!

I’m so doomed.

Feminina:

Right? The Greeks KNOW how to do a fancy dress ball! (You accepted the fancy dress, I take it? I did. I mean, I considered insisting on keeping my armor and weapons, but I didn’t want to miss the chance to get dressed up, so I figured even if I did get attacked, I’d make do with a cheese knife I grabbed from the buffet table or something.)

I don’t really remember any of those guys either, except Alkibiades (who as you say was hard to miss) and Sokrates (whom I already knew). I think if they come up later, we’ll get some kind of refresher course. I felt like it was really more about the general confusing, drunken atmosphere for Kassandra, as well as uncovering clues about the next places we need to go, than it was about laying out specific important plot points we’ll need to know later.

So and so prefers dry wine! NEVER FORGET THIS.

It’s gonna be great. We’re gonna love it.

I went and killed some people for Kleon, and now he wants me to look for some guy whose name starts with H who was last seen in a quarry. Is that the guy you looked for already? I’m on it.

Butch:

Oh I SO got dressed up! And I accidentally lit myself on fire by walking into a brazier, but, luckily, this did not really affect the look. Hey, orgies AND someone on fire! That’s a Par-TAY!

Sweet wine! He wanted the sweet wine! I think. Whatever. That’s what he got. And the singing competition that followed was great. I take it you sang?

I take it you joined in the orgy?

Man….shit. I GUESS that was who I was looking for. There’s this masked cultist who has a quarry and slaves in Attika. I was looking for his clue. Maybe I had to do the Kleon shit first.

Shit.

Feminina:

Oh man! I gave him dry wine! He liked it, said it was the nectar of the gods, but there was no singing contest, so maybe he would have gotten even drunker if I’d picked the sweet. I thought the guy hiding in the kitchen said the other guy “couldn’t abide” sweet wine, but maybe he said he “couldn’t handle” it…meaning it would have hit him even harder.

Sigh. Can’t believe I missed a singing contest! At least I got the orgy. Going back to the kitchen for oil was a nice touch.

Oh! Oh! And what did Phoibe say when you left? She told me “I heard there was a plague on Kephallonia! You don’t suppose my friend…”

And Kassandra said something like “no, no, this isn’t anyone’s fault! But I’ll go check on Kephallonia.” Which is either lazy game writing, or Kassandra flat-out lying, because I’ve BEEN back to Kephallonia and I know there IS a plague and it’s actually totally my fault. Anyway, props to the game once again for having this choice continue to reverberate through the story.

As for the quarry, I don’t know, this wasn’t anything to do with a cultist, it’s just some messenger Kleon wants me to find me. Maybe a totally different guy.

Butch:

It was a nice touch, but DUDE the singing contest! How on EARTH did you miss the singing contest? They both got drunk, and they challenge each other and Kassandra to a singing verse contest where you have to make up verses on the spot, complete with timed dialog choices. Kassandra is belting it out, man. Girl can hit the back of the room with the best of them. She was totally into it, too, with dance moves and gestures and over emoting. It was great.

Dude! No, Phoibe just said that she can’t wait to see me again, and knows she will this time, because this is Athens and not Kephallonia, and no one ever goes back to Kephallonia!”

Games all “Hey, Femmy, go back and see what you did! But Butch? Yeah, you’re good. Keep on trucking.”

Probably a different H guy. I’ll never find this dude. Probably won’t be able to finish the game.

Feminina:

OH MAN! Sadness. Yeah, he must have preferred the sweet wine. I got none of that. The one guy just told me his tip about the mountain sanctuary or wherever and the other one said “well, this is dull” and staggered off. End of conversation.

Siiiiiigh.

This plague on Kephallonia is going to haunt me forever.

As is the dude you can’t find in the quarry. But nah, he’ll turn up. Bound to. Go kill a dude for Kleon and maybe when he sends you back, somehow the clue will magically be there. Maybe it’s on the messenger I need to look for!

It’ll work out.

I haven’t killed any cultists lately. Need to step up that game, man.

Butch:

Dude, you would have loved it. Cuz we love songs, too! Remember Leliana’s song? We loved that. And drunken song duels pretty much need to be added to our list of things games must have.

Feminina:

I am so grieved and disheartened right now. It hardly even seems worth it to murder more dudes in the face of this terrible setback.

This will surely stand as the single most important thing we did differently in this game. Or perhaps any game.

Butch:

It really will. It really, really will.

I’d urge you to go look at some videos of it online, but that might make the pain all the worse.

Feminina:

Yeah, I thought about that, and then thought “no, it would only rub salt in the wound.”

Knowing you missed a great party isn’t less painful if you can see video of other people having fun at that party.

My Kassandra has made many grave errors in her life, but this is perhaps the gravest. Plague? Enh. Causing a guy to gouge out his own eyes because he couldn’t handle the truth? Being mean to children? Whatever.

Failing to liven up a party? TRAGEDY.

Butch:

Yeah, man. I sang (very well, if I don’t say so myself) AND accidentally lit myself on fire.

I blame the goat.

Feminina:

I didn’t set myself on fire, but I did very warily keep on eye on a torch someone had dropped on the carpet. “That can’t be good,” I thought, and tried to pick it up, but was unable to move it. Probably because my fancy dress hampered my freedom of movement. Ha!

I kept watching other people wandering around almost on top of it, but it never set anything on fire, so everything turned out OK. After watching that random person burn to death in the marketplace that time, not to mention setting myself on fire a few times (not at parties), I have a healthy respect for flames.

Which when you think about it is probably the most practical thing this game could teach us.

Butch:

Second only to “Make sure you get the good wine, cuz otherwise you’ll miss the singing.”

Feminina:

Lesson bitterly learned, game.

Butch:

I do kinda like it as a game mechanic. Like, if you remember/forget the wine choice you get a reward/punishment, but it’s just kinda fun. Had it been “quest failed” or “now you don’t get the information this way so you have to spend two more hours getting it some other way,” that would’ve sucked. So it all stays in character, sure, but in such a way that doesn’t go overboard in punishing the player.

Feminina:

Yeah, I’m into it. No real game impact, but fun stuff you could miss. Like Geralt staying up drinking with the other witchers and dressing up in Yen’s clothes and accidentally calling some other sorceress on the magic sorceress communication device!

Good times, but not a big deal from a game standpoint if you don’t do it.

Butch:

HA! Yeah, that was kinda the best. Yen being pissed about it was the icing on the cake.

Ah, good times. More parties, more drinking, more singing, games.

Feminina:

Yes! All of those things. Plus group hug endings.

Man, someday someone is finally going to make the Best Game Ever by incorporating all of those things.

We’re waiting, game industry. We’re waiting.

Butch:

And nudity. Need more of that.

Feminina:

Oh yes, that goes without saying. Always.

Butch:

Man, how did we get here before noon? I played! I did a big story mission!

But it’s hot. There’s kids. It seems so long until school……

Feminina:

You’re right. We need to get back on track. At least for a while.

So…uh…after Attika, which of the leads are you going to follow up on? I think I’m going to go to Keos, because I have an ainigmata ostraka clue that leads me there and I actually haven’t already been. Might as well multitask, right?

Also, do you think we’re actually going to get different information at each location, or do we just have to follow up on all three leads to learn the same thing, like with the Dagger and the identity of the Kingfisher?

Here’s hoping it’s the former.

Butch:

Man, I hope so, too. Maybe it’ll be we only have to do one….

…nah.

I dunno, man. See, you’re level, what, 97 or so, and I just hit level 20 (yet another way to liven up a party: start emitting flashes of golden light while strings play), so I was going to pick whatever was easiest. That said, as things level up with you, you have no way of knowing which that is. I have no objection to Keos so long as I don’t meet some, what, level 95 llamas on the beach who make the boars look wimpy.

Feminina:

I just hit level 30 last night! It was magnificent. The music, the golden light…and yeah, last time I leveled was at the party! That was where I swear these two guys talking in the background looked startled and threw up their hands to block the sudden radiance. Although they were having an animated conversation anyway, so it could have been a coincidence.

If you were just in Korinth and it was overpowered for you, maybe Keos is the place to go! Although maybe not, because I haven’t been there yet. What was the other place? Logically, one of them must be around level 20, because it would be kind of odd of the game to say “the main story leads here!–to these several places you can’t go yet.”

If the main story only led to one place, sure. We have many times had the experience of needing to go do sidequests and level up until we were tough enough to follow the main story. But when they give you not one but three options, thus guaranteeing you’re going to be busy for a while following up on them all (because like you, I find the idea that maybe we only have to do one of them and then we’ll be done to be implausible), you’d think at least one of them ought to be one you could follow up on right then.

Of course, that’s human logic, not game logic, so what do I know?

Butch:

Well, I think, but I’m not sure, that Korinth’s helpful level guide was like 18-23 or something. Maybe I just landed in the hardest part of Korinth. Maybe. Maybe there are parts of Korinth I can handle. If I can get past the llamas.

I’ll check tonight. But I’m sure as hell not ready for any of those 24-28 parts.

Feminina:

Come with me to Keos! Minimum recommended level 17, according to the internet.

It’s gonna be great.

Butch:

Keos ahoy!

Now watch: for the next three weeks I’ll be all “uh, you in keos yet?” And you’ll be all “how should I know? Oooooo! Cave!!!!”

Feminina:

Too true. After all, I have to go find this guy in a quarry for Kleon, and who knows where I’ll end up from there.

Butch:

Plans femmy. You know how they go.

Feminina:

How well I know. Just watch, neither one of us is going to set foot on Keos for months.

Did I mention I went back to the volcano island? Killed some bandits or cult members or whoever was there. Got some loot. Good times.

Butch:

No! Did you magpie there or did you have a reason?

We probably won’t even find Keos on the map for months.

Feminina:

Pure magpie. I was thinking “you know where I haven’t finished a question mark? That volcano!” Went in, murdered and looted, got out. There wasn’t a lot of story there.

Although there probably will be later, and I’ll have to go back. Meh.

Fun Subtitle Tricks to Try at Home

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, mechanics, plot, XP

Extremely minor spoilers for plot points in AC: Odyssey

Butch:

Don’t have much cuz my soul got crushed, as it does, but I did play some. Spent FOREVER trying to get into a silver mine to get a cultist clue (no cover, long mine, unfair), found out he was level 22 and I’m not (more on that in a second), did a timed quest (that, too), discovered a bunch of places, and killed a really tricky cultist and his friends.

Here’s what I wanna talk about: XP. I wanna talk about XP.

XP, I believe came about in D&D, right? They were supposed to represent your character gaining EXPERIENCE. Knowledge. Skills. You earned the points for doing things that meant your character was learning stuff about the world, getting better with swords and hammers and spells with practice, working towards the next level by learning, practicing and growing. Right? That was the point.

Games took that and ran, and fine. It’s a good system! It explains why a character has more skills now than before: Because that character learned by practicing and doing stuff over time.

Which brings us to this game, that obviously doesn’t understand what XP are and has no idea why it’s giving them out.

So see above what I did. The silver mine hard. It needed stealth, combat, and special abilities. You know, the stuff Kassandra has to practice to get better. Lots of question marks? She’s learning about the world. The Cultist? Both practice and learning about the cult. These are EXPERIENCE. But each thing? A hundred. Couple hundred. 900 for clearing the mine. 1200 for killing the cultist.

And then the timed quest, for which I got 3200 3200! Must’ve been hard, you say. Well, here’s what I had to do: give a lady 50 drachmae. That was it. And for that, 3200 XP.

Now, I’m happy to have the XP. I am. I need them, as I am way behind you. I feel I earned a fair amount of XP for the stuff I did in the playing session, when you total it all up. But I should’ve gotten far more for doing the stuff that got Kassandra relevant experience and far less for just giving someone some money. What experience did that give her? How did that teach her anything that she’d need to learn more stuff?

I sorta feel games have forgotten that XP are really EP. When they do that, they stop making any sense. Skill progression stops making any sense. And, while I accept the story of AC makes no sense, at least the skill progression should.

And how they’re handing out XP does not.

In other news, my hotmail side ad is for a hemodyalsis machine.  Seriously. 

I liked it better when Mrs. McP shopped at Victoria’s Secret.  FAR better ads. 

Feminina:

I’m with you–the XP on some of those little timed quests is completely disproportionate to any kind of effort required. Unless you learned that helping people is good, and that helps Kassandra grow as a person? Grow A LOT? But man, that’s a stretch. In reality, it’s obviously just a quick way to let people boost their progress towards the next level.

“Here’s 50 bucks, gimme more HP and damage please!”

I did play! I even went back to Athens and talked to Perikles! Only partly to prove you wrong because you bet I wouldn’t. I was probably about to get around to it anyway.

Major story event! Romance! Fancy dress ball! And guess where I need to go now?

That’s right: Korinthia. The very place I just spent 20 hours clearing of question marks while avoiding a return to Athens. (Incidentally, Perikles made some dry comment about how it was nice I’d finally made it back. I don’t know if he always says that, or if it’s actually based on the amount of time you spend doing random other stuff before you go see him again, but it was kind of great. I recommend you hurry back ASAP and see if he says it to you!)

Anyway, no worries, now Korinthia is all neat and tidy and I can focus on the mission!

My sidebar ad is for the NYT. At least it’s not hemodialysis!

Butch:

Still not as good as Victoria’s Secret.

I dunno. I think it undermines what XP are for. XP are for making progression make sense. And it isn’t necessarily the timed quests themselves. There was one where I had to kill a bigassed bear. That I don’t mind the XP. Killing bigassed bears is good practice for fighting things. THAT deserves XP.

But XP is really a way that RPGs try to use stats to replicate real life as well as RPGs can, and I say this going back to pen and paper D&D. Whether it’s that, or skill checks, or the wealth system in D20 Modern, the whole point of stats is to make the game make some sort of realistic sense, as much as that is possible. When you abandon that for…no real reason…then not only is the player confused as to what to do next, you get rid of the small bit of realism that the stat was there to provide. Games should be working towards some sort of immersive realism, not backing away from it.

Re: Korinthia I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU!

Dude, why magpie when you’re going there anyway?

Ok, fuck it. I have one more cultist clue to track down in Attika, I will do that, then off to Perikles. That’ll give me a level or two. If not, I’ll do a timed quest or two where I have to pet a dog or eat a sandwich and I’ll be fine.

Feminina:

Enh, it’s fine. I was going to get to all those question marks in Korinthia at some point anyway, right? What difference does it make it if I do it now or later?

I magpie BECAUSE I know I’ll be going there anyway, and I want to be prepared when I do.

And you’re right, huge XP awards for no effort do contradict the stated meaning of XP within the game. If we get rewarded more for handing someone 50 drachmae than for actually using all the skills we’ve been working on, what does that reward even mean? Should we be spending ALL our time on the tiny side quests, since that’s what the game values?

I was in a conversational setting last night when I happened to fulfill an objective that put me over the top to 29. It was funny to be standing in the middle of a group when suddenly the soaring triumphant chords sounded and the golden light suffused me… I swear some people nearby started back in astonishment and made as if to cover their eyes, and although it was probably just part of their conversation animation, I thought it was pretty amusing.

Butch:

HA! That is pretty great. Though it reminds me of another complaint with this game and, frankly, lots of others.

There’ll be times you finish a quest or level or both and the triumphant chords happen and all the other sound effect at the very time Kassandra is saying something about what just happened and/or what’s gonna happen next. Like, game, seriously. You KNOW there’s gonna be sound after a quest. Do not make her talk then. Have her wait five seconds.

This happens ALL THE TIME.

Feminina:

YES! That is true. Stop doing that, games! Level-up effects need to force an auto-pause on all other activity! Either that, or they can wait until you’re actually ready to deal with them. Some games just tell you “hey you leveled up!” with a discreet ping or something. Which is not nearly as exciting as the chords and the golden light, I grant you, but no one wants to miss out on dialogue for that!

I do appreciate the games that will let you level up mid-combat and heal you at the same time. I’ve had some happy instances of being almost dead until I happened to strike the blow that did it, and then I was full health AND stronger, and that saved the battle.

It is a very artificial measure, though. It’s pretty well baked into games now, and I understand why, and it obviously serves a very important purpose in game progression and character development. I don’t object to it. But it’s artificial and takes you out of the game to some extent, however they do it.

More so, though, when there’s not even any internal logic to what it is you’re getting rewarded for.

Butch:

See also: don’t yell “SLOW DOWN” when Barnabas or Herodotus is talking. Like, we know. Slow down.

I haven’t leveled during combat yet. Each time it’s at the end of a quest and, it seems, each time I miss something.

You probably miss her saying “Why the fuck am I here? I’m going to have to come here later.”

Feminina:

I actually think it’s kind of funny that they yell at me to slow down if I’m too busy hopping around looting in the area while they’re talking. Sure, I already know I should, but if I don’t, I don’t mind them pointing it out.

I think I miss her saying “excellent, another question mark I won’t have to come deal with later!”

Butch:

No, when Kassandra yells it. On the boat.

Herodotus: Have I told you about this place that will be crucially important to the story later?
Kassandra: You have not my friend. Please do.
Herodotus: It all began long ago, when the old ones-
Kassandra: SLOW DOWN! OARS!
Herodotus: ****silence****
Kassandra: You were saying?
Herodotus: Sorry. The developers only let me say it once, as a set piece.
Kassandra: Seriously? That was important!
Herodotus: You were the one that slowed down.
Kassandra: There were boats that could’ve been pirates! C’mon, one more chance.
Herodotus: Fine. Fine. I suppose. Long ago, there were crucially important-
Kassandra: FULL SAIL! SING SHANTIES!
Herodotus: Man, fuck this.

Feminina:

Oh, right! Yeah, she needs to keep out of her own conversations sometimes. I haven’t been on the ship in a while, to be honest, so I’d forgotten that little quirk.

RDR2, to its credit, handled dialogue during travel pretty well. I remember sometimes I’d outrun someone and start shooting at a deer or whatever and they’d just break off and then pick up the thread once we were riding close together again. “Anyway, as I was saying, this oaf wandered out to California…”

Butch:

Yeah, that made sense. But shit, in this game, it isn’t even they talk over each other. Even the subtitles just say “More oars!” or some shit. Herodotus is lost to time. And dialog.

Feminina:

Not helpful, subtitles! Be more informative!

I mean, unless it’s all a clever plan to make us think there’s more story than there actually is. Maybe it’s intentional!

“And so the one piece of information that makes this whole thing make sense is–”

“MORE OARS! And good point, Herodotus. That DOES make perfect sense!”

“All those people complaining about the bizarre twists just need to understand–”

“SAILS! SAILS UP! Very true, my friend. Once they know that one weird trick, it all becomes clear AND they can melt belly fat with no effort!”

Butch:

That would make sense….

Can’t tell which is worse, just cutting off subtitles, or what Shadow of the TR did, which threw every damn word ANYONE said into the subtitles. You’d be walking though Paititi, and EVERY NPC saying anything would pop up. Like, five, six lines at a time, most of them not in English, all in different colors. Somewhere in there was plot….I think.

Again, maybe that was a smokescreen, too.

Feminina:

We may be underestimating the sneakiness of the writers. Because you know what’s easier than crafting a consistent, compelling narrative over multiple installments composed of large, complex games?

NOT doing that. And then using subtle tricks to suggest the existence of such a narrative in ways that make players blame mechanics for not catching the details, rather than noting the absence of the details themselves.

Butch:

We’re so onto them.

“Hey, let’s just mumble and then put a bunch of gibberish over it! We can say the gibberish is Greek! Like anyone speaks Greek. No one will know!”

Makes perfect sense now….it’s all so clear to me.

Feminina:

We’ll be melting belly fat while we sleep in no time!

Butch:

Behold the power of gibberish!

T SHIRT!!!!!

Feminina:

Of course! It’s so obvious! It was [mumble mumble] all along!

 

Naked Zeus is a Harsh Master

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, booze, challenge level, children, combat

Crushed souls tell no spoilers

Butch:

I got nothing. Well, I have tired kids. Not home until 930 last night from the show. One thing I’ll say for this camp: The shows are damn good. I’ll give them that. But late. Very late.

And, when they’re tired, they’re evil.

But it’s cool. They’ll go to bed nice and early and oh wait there’s another, even longer show tonight, and Nugget has a part in the second act.

Tomorrow will be ok, though. Very mellow and oh wait they have their end of camp thing where they’re both in concerts.

Naked Zeus, I beseech you….either save me or strike me down. There’s a ram and maybe a cup of iced coffee in it for you.

Feminina:

Good lord, man.

Honestly, I’m not sure sacrifice will help you: based on this tale of tribulations, I can only assume that you have gravely offended Naked Zeus in the past, and this is your terrible punishment. Legends will be told about it in ages to come. Cautionary legends.

I played some. Bopped around Korinth and the surrounding area, did everything I had to do there except the giant fort on the hill. I’ll go back for that. There’s time. Not like a sinister cult is trying to find and probably murder my mother or anything.

Butch:

You know you’ll likely be back. You’ll do the fort, and the very next quest will be “Go get the thing from that fort…..”

Kevin all “Phew. Glad that’s over. She’s finally gone. I gotta remember to mow the lawn. Well, right after I put this beacon that exploded back together. Hey, Kevin, hand me that hammer. Kevin? Kevin? Kevin, I TOLD you, don’t go near the grass oh where has he gone…hey, what’s that whistling?”

As for my trials and tribulations, it’s cool. As of three tomorrow, camp will be done! So…you know….nothing really happening until school…in a couple of weeks…..

SAVE ME NAKED ZEUS!!!!!!

Feminina:

I still think you need to repent and beg forgiveness for some horrible crime you must have committed to anger Him. Maybe sacrifice a couple of the kids?

Hm. That might be a bit dark, even for us.

Butch:

Yet it would be particularly effective in terms of remedying the issues at hand.

Feminina:

Even if Naked Zeus doesn’t personally respond!

Hard to argue with that kind of efficacy when it comes to prayer.

Butch:

Sometimes, you just gotta make sure Naked Zeus gets the hint.

T SHIRT!!!!!

Oh, and there’s a gathering of the neighborhood friends TOMORROW after the camp thing because they all need to drink away their kid issues, too, and guess who they always nominate to cook shit?

Going to desperately try to find time to get to Korinth this afternoon.

Feminina:

Korinth has so many captains to kill and treasures to loot! You’re gonna love it.

Butch:

Dude, I could’ve had that in Athens. I DID have that in Athens. My sailors are gonna be all “You made us row all the way here, stopping every twelve feet, for this? We could’ve stayed put, man!”

Feminina:

“Quiet, you. You needed the exercise. Can’t have you getting all lazy and sloppy right before we get attacked by pirates again. Trust me, you have to keep up with FITNESS or it’ll haunt you.”

Butch:

It so will!

Though I really don’t have to taunt them with FITNESS. I often (and I assume you do the same) do the trick of “travel speed” then “Ooo! Question Mark! Slow down!”

So she’s always “Sails up oars out….sails no, oars! Uh…sails…maybe no oars!”

I’m sorta surprised they haven’t thrown me overboard. Maybe they’ve thought about it, then realized I’d just swim back.

Feminina:

Ha! Yes. I’ve done that. “Full speed ahead! On second thought slow down, I want to check out that thing over there…”

It’s all about teaching them to respond quickly and accurately. Because when the pirates come, an instant’s hesitation could be fatal!

Butch:

Ergo the irony of me, in the face of every pirate attack, taking forever to a) figure out where they are, b) remembering what buttons to push and c) line up a ram that never works anyway. Sailors all “What NOW we’re chilling? NOW?????”

OK! Played some!

I gotta ask: What did I ever do to you? You KNOW I’m having a rough week. So why? Why did you send me to Korinth?

I’m in Korinth. I went by way of Salamis (aren’t salamis Italian?) (Had to be said) where I did the tomb of Ajax, found a stele, got some cool loot. It was fun. Killed a cultist there, too.

And then went zoop across the bay to Korinth.

Where EVERYTHING is two or three levels above me. First place: Red 23s over them. I’m level 19. The fucking WOLVES outrank me.

Yes, there are question marks. Lots of them. LOTS of them. With baddies who are badder than I am.

Dude.

DUDE.

Feminina:

Oh. Sorry.

I’m level 28! I didn’t realize! You’re keeping up with me in terms of the main story, it didn’t occur to me that you might not also be at the same level. But then, I guess I’ve killed a lot more random captains I found at random question marks, and that adds up.

Apologies, though. Unintentional! Maybe try Megaris? I had a lot of question marks at the far edges of Megaris that I’d missed. Maybe you do too.

Butch:

28????????

There is no Kevin left in Greece.

Nah, dude, I’m going to give you a 50/50 chance of actually doing main quest shit this week at all. If I ever have time to play games again, I’m going back to Attika. At the very least, there’s two cultists there need killin’ and they’re my level. That and maybe a chat with Perikles (who is SO in the cult….we’ll talk….later….) should beef me up some. At least it’ll do it quicker than getting 192 XP per question mark.

You haven’t been back to Athens at all, have you?

Feminina:

Well…no. I have not. I will. At some point.

Mr. O’ is level 38, man. I thought I was lagging behind here! Of course he’s on summer vacation and doesn’t need sleep. It’s really only surprising he’s not finished yet.

Butch:

Oh he’s on summer vacation! Why didn’t you say so! Makes so much sense now, because there’s nothing like being at home with the kids all day to get wonderful, peaceful, game time!

Feminina:

I hold you as the shining ideal of how well that works, all right. Your soul is hardly crushed at all!

But they’re not home all day, they’ve got daycare and summer adventure camp at school. They’re home some of the time, for sure, but he manages to play some afternoons. Plus the not sleeping means he can also play at night.

Butch:

Yeah, the night playing is a plus. But, as my soul is crushed, I’m usually either a) tired, b) tipsy or, most likely c) both at night.

But again….my kids are/were at camp. But there were chores! Food to make! FITNESS to do! Laundry!

How does he DO it?

Feminina:

I don’t know, I’m not home. But probably not having to drive all over creation to drop people off and pick them up helps. We’re kind of close to everything right now, in the city, so that’s convenient.

If the kids ever want to go someplace COOL, or FUN, that could be a different story. But not my problem hahahahahaha because oh darn I have to work! I’m cruel.

Wolf, YOU Are My Father!

Tags

Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, challenge level, combat, mechanics, plot, story

Some spoilers for early plot points in AC: Odyssey

Feminina:

All right, I returned to the main storyline, and immediately got to the part where I have to work for the Spartans in order to get close enough to the Wolf to assassinate him.

I’m not sure, though…was Elpenor, the guy who hired us to kill the Wolf of Sparta, himself an Athenian? Because you’re right that it seems pretty odd to kill a bunch of Athenians while attempting to help the Athenians by getting rid of the Spartan general (though war is a complex matter!), but I’m not sure Elpenor is actually on the Athenian SIDE, exactly. I think maybe he was just a merchant who was annoyed by the war’s interference with his trading, or something.

Anyway, you’re absolutely right, we’re now working for the Spartans, with a lot of question marks and much-more-reasonably-leveled challenges all around. I went and recovered a stolen wax tablet with some plans or something, and then I found a fort where I need to sneak in and burn some supplies, but I didn’t finish that. Apparently we’re supposed to weaken the entire region of Mageris to the point that the Spartans can take over? This “nation power” mechanic suggests we’re going to be basically taking over all the regions one by one until we rule Greece (ha, good luck, no one ever tried that!), but we’ll see how it goes.

Butch:

Ah, good. We’re at the same place. Main story wise, anyway. I cannot speak for side quests.

Told you there’d still be question marks.

Oh, right. I just assumed that he wanted Wolfie dead because war. But I just remembered….

This is AC game! Right? RIGHT!

So who the fuck knows. We certainly do know that bloodlines matter (no way that he hired her to kill her own dad by accident, cuz AC), weird alien shit happens, and people have motives, man. MOTIVES.

There was that line: Kassandra: “I’m not an assassin.” Him: “First time for everything.”

I mean, shit. Right? I’m right when I say I mean, shit.

It does suggest that we’re going to try to take over Greece, which makes me a tad nervous. It’s kinda reminiscent of Mafia 3, where you had to weaken dudes, kill the boss, take over the area over and over and that got tedious, didn’t it? I have a real fear that each zone will be “Destroy this, steal that, kill him, boss fight,” and that’s a lot of regions in which to do that. That bullshit distracted from the main story of Mafia 3 (which was a good main story), and I don’t want this game to fall into the same trap.

Feminina:

You’re right…there’s no way Elpenor just accidentally happened to hire the Wolf’s daughter to go kill the Wolf. There’s some larger plot in play here! Possibly involving aliens and/or French Canadians! It’s gonna be great.

And I did notice that the guy we talked to is the Wolf’s son, but his adopted son rather than Alexios…who I nevertheless still suspect is out there somewhere. We shall see. We’re gonna love it.

Butch:

I, too, expect Alexios.

Though I was thinking…

Kassandra and Alexios both had THEIR blood on that spear, right? Which means eventually they’re gonna get stabbed by it. Both of them. Right?

Feminina:

That is rather the implication. Sibling rivalry, man.

I mean, in theory there could be, say, skin cells from one of them worn into the wood, and blood from the other who got stabbed, but in practice…seems likely they’re both going to be getting stabbed at some point.

Or maybe they’re both wounded and bleeding and they collapse on top of the spear? I mean, there are countless scenarios that COULD explain it.

But somehow, one rather suspects they’re both going to get stabbed.

Butch:

Well, one of the necessary narrative conceits of all AC games is knowing that the person you’re playing is gonna die. This game takes place 3000 years ago or so, so even if Kassandra lived to be 97, she ain’t around today. Thus, her getting stabbed by the magical spear wouldn’t be all that surprising.

Nor would her becoming an assassin. There’s got to be a reason that the hipsters are looking at her. This isn’t some “Oh, hey, found this old spear, got some blood on it, wonder who it is?”

I played some to catch up.

Found that guy’s tablet. Found another tablet that says “a contract to kill someone. The description sounds a lot like you” (which, let’s face it, how can “Kill the hot ‘n’ sassy one NOT be me?” I kid, it doesn’t say that. Or does it?) Magpied. Found good loot. Found out, mercifully, that bandit camps are often Athenian, and raiding them lowers the defense thing. Killed, like, four dudes, got loot, lowered the meter.

Here’s a thing: You find any of those note things that pop up in “location objectives?” I’ve found a couple, and they seem like treasure maps, don’t they? Or, at least, treasure riddles? Haven’t made heads or tails of them. You?

Feminina:

Yeah, they definitely seemed specifically interested in this particular spear, hence presumably the particular people whose blood they expected to find on it.

Although honestly, with a murder tool, is that really the best approach? I mean, the thing exists to stab people. And as we see, it gets used for this A LOT. There’s going to be A LOT of peoples’ blood on it. I suppose our modern-day protagonists could be following up on ancient legends saying that the last people to be stabbed with this weapon were proto-Assassins or whatever, but otherwise, they could be digging up DNA from half of ancient Greece.

Hm.

Yes, I’ve found a couple of those notes. Also can’t make much of them. Perhaps it will be explained later.

Also, speaking of finding things, have you found any “aenigmata ostraka” or whatever? I see them on location objectives, but haven’t found any. Even the one back at Morkos’ vineyard. For shame.

Butch:

Well, hipster assistant did say “Hey, it was hard to isolate these two from everything on it.” There. Plot hole filled. Which I must point out because that’s likely the only time I’ll be able to say that in this game.

Dude, that’s exactly what I’m talking about! Those notes!

What did YOU find?

Feminina:

Oh, OK, then I haven’t found any. I found some random piece of parchment or something that showed up in my inventory.

Well, maybe once you get a lot of them, you can assemble them into some coherent directions to treasure?

Butch:

Nah, they’re all like, well, the one I just found is “It’s dangerous out there, so I don’t leave often. When I do, I go northwest of the battlefield in the occupied forest. There you will find me at the feet of the wine god himself!”

Like…..ok?

One was “Blah blah Odysseus went north from his temple and did…whatever…there you will find your reward on a slaughtered goat.”

So they seem to be little “find cool shit” riddles. I guess.

Ikaros will highlight them, like treasure chests. Next time you’re in a place with one, just eagle eye all around until he sees something that pops as a little scroll thingy. Or, he usually will. He seems to do a better job with it when they’re out in the open. Caves? Less so.

Feminina:

Ah, Ikaros. I need to use him more often. I think I did find one of those, then…definitely something with a cryptic little message, that showed up as a tablet-looking thing? And yeah, if it mentions ‘reward’ you figure there has to be treasure involved. I’ll…look into those. When I run out of question marks.

Butch:

Oh, dude. Ikaros is KEY. Love that birdie. I use him all the time.

Only annoyance is when I accidentally find the wrong quest. “Ah, there’s what I need.” Why is it surrounded by level 20 guys? You don’t need that yet! REALLY!

Just let Femmy deal with that shit.

Feminina:

Yeah! I’ll sneak right in there, steal the level 22 weapon from the chest, and run off! Completely useless mission accomplished!

Butch:

Well, at least your endgame won’t drag.

Game: Raid that camp!
Femmy: Done.
Game: Kill that guy!
Femmy: So ahead of you.
Game: Climb that mountain!
Femmy: What, that one I did on level six?
Game: Build that fence!
Femmy: ………….shit.

Feminina:

Siiiiiiigh…fine, I’ll build the fence. And feed the cows.

Freakin’ epilogues, man. RDR2 ruined the concept for everyone.

Butch:

Might as well just build the fence now. Though it’s likely a level 38 fence.

Feminina:

Hotmail’s suggested replies:

“That’s what I was thinking.”
“I don’t think that’s a good idea.”
“That’s a good idea.”

So…yeah. I was thinking of that bad-good idea! I guess I’ll do it or not do it according to my hard-thought decision.

At least the level 38 fence should keep the damn boars off me. Seriously, I walked onto the shore and they attacked! That was really my first clue that the whole region was too tough for me.

The Pigs of Warning. “Come back later, you fool!”

Obviously, I ignored them. But they meant well! Trying to kill me was for my own good, really.

Butch:

HA! The pigs of warning.

Heed the pigs of warning!

T SHIRT!!!!

Maybe you just bumped into them. I’ve been trying SO HARD not to bump into anyone because RDR2 conditioned me to think the merest bump was an invitation to a gunfight. This is very difficult when there’s dudes EVERYWHERE. My damn boat! Like, where do they all sleep? Where do they all go to the bathroom?

Every time I bump I’m all “AIEE! NO I DON’T WANT TO FIGHT oh you’re cool.”

RDR, man. Made me neurotic.

Feminina:

Ha! So true.

“No, sorry, don’t attack I just–oh. Right. I’m the captain. OUT OF MY WAY, losers!”

Some earlier AC games had a mechanic where you had to walk carefully through the streets because they’d always be filled with people carrying boxes, and if you bumped them they’d instantly drop their boxes which would instantly shatter into crumbs, and then they’d be mad at you, and they wouldn’t attack you or anything, but if enough people were mad at you the guards would notice.

I certainly haven’t seen that here.

Ha…there would also be groups of minstrels in the cities that if they spotted you would run up and swarm around you, playing lutes and singing and potentially attracting the guards’ attention unless you flung some gold at them. Then in AC Brotherhood there was a storyline where you had to beat up some minstrels and steal their clothes and pretend to be a minstrel yourself, and Ezio said “minstrels…I’m going to enjoy this,” and it was totally awesome, because we all hated those damn minstrels and loved him for hating them too.

Good times, man. Good times.

Butch:

I remember them! I remember in AC4 you could use them and other crowds as cover!

Though the boxes are just weird.

Feminina:

Yes, hiding in crowds was a nice mechanic which doesn’t seem to be available here. Though the cities are in general much smaller and there aren’t really “crowds” in the same way, so I guess it sort of makes sense.

Butch:

“I’m hiding in this crowd of soldiers….so I can assassinate soldiers.”

“HEY! Who killed Kevin?”
“Dunno, boss.”
“Who’s that behind you, other Kevin?”
“Uh….not sure. But she sure is glowing blue.”
“Oh, well. Can’t see her then. Hey! Who killed other other Kevin?”

Feminina:

Alas, it was never quite that easy. I could only ever hide in crowds of civilians, and if you assassinate too many of them, you desynchronize.

Not that I’ve ever accidentally stabbed minstrels to death when I meant to throw them coins, or anything.

Butch:

 

Odd Naming Conventions

Tags

challenge level, making games, mechanics, Red Dead Redemption 2

Minor spoilers for near the beginning of Red Dead Redemption 2

Butch:

Well, got to Valentine, and instantly started liking the game a whole lot more. It’s amazing what quest markers will do for a game. I still feel like we’re kinda in the hinterlands here, but NOW I feel like a damn cowboy. No snow, quests, saloons, MUCH better. Did the “High society” quasi tutorial. Decided that a mechanic every game should have is chase scenes that end with the target just crashing if you don’t catch them. Would’ve made a couple missions in mafia better.

Did that, bought a newspapaer, unlocked another cheat-

Hmm? What’s that you say? You didn’t know about cheats? Cheats! Not using them yet, but yes. Cheats. I have to say, I was very nervous that this game doesn’t have the ability to lower the difficultly until I discovered the cheats. Good to know they’re there.

I have twelve metric shit tons of stuff to say about theme, but I also have a cold and I have to go take my car in for service and recalls and shit, so I’m back on the phone after this, so I’ll hold off on the theme. But, as we really must get back to bloggage, I’ll chuck this out there for now:

SEMI RANT!

So during Shadow we talked on how it’s kinda silly when games go for realism when they also have supernatural shit. Well, it’s also silly, and, really, inexplicable, when a game goes for realism, CAPTURES so damn much realism so very well, then does weird things to muck it up. Here: They’re in the rockies, right? They are. They went east, and now they’re in the heartland. IT’S THE ROCKIES. So why call it the Grizzlies? Who do they think they’re fooling? Why do they feel the need to fool anyone? I read the newspaper, and it refers to “President MacAllister.” Why not just say “McKinley?” I can see if you were doing some alternate history, but having President McKinley in there and just calling him MacAllister and winking at the audience all “Yeah, we know, we’re being cheeky” is just weird. It’s not like “Rocky Mountains” is copyrighted. It’s not like they have to pay McKinley’s estate.

I had the same issues with “New Bordeaux.”

And before anyone is all “But there wasn’t an Arthur Morgan in the real Rockies” who cares? My kids just played the Spider Man game, and that takes place in New York. Not “New Amsterdam but it’s really New York.” New York. Geography and all. No one said “This game sucks! I’ve been to New York and there’s no Spider man there!” It’s a fictional work in a real place, which has been part of fiction since fiction was invented.

Changing details JUST ENOUGH is just precious and cheeky and completely unnecessary.

Ok, rant over.

Feminina:

I would definitely like more chase scenes to end in crashes if I don’t catch the target. That would be just fine.

I bought a newspaper, but I didn’t see a cheat code. Maybe I bought the wrong one.

I also wondered about the whole naming of things issue. Why, indeed, do so much to get the historical details looking so accurate–YOU! are living in history! in the real live American West! in 1899!–and then throw in the fact of “oh, and also this is an alternate universe where major geographical regions were named differently and important historical figures are ever-so-slightly off.”

I mean…what’s the point? As you say, it’s not as if they’re dealing with copyright issues here, and setting fictional events in real places is a long, long, long-standing tradition. Why not use the real Rocky Mountains and make up a few small towns? Is anyone going to sue? I imagine the worst that can happen is that you get some details wrong and put a bunch of seedy liquor stores in downtown Concord or something and a few bloggers make snarky comments. And after 120 years, the odds of even that are pretty darn low.

The crossover between people who are playing this game and people who are ardent American West historians and would be able to identify the precise area you’re claiming was Valentine and point out that actually this was a major military training ground in that year, is not likely to be large. Whereas the crossover between people who are playing this game and people who are aware that there is no range of mountains called the Grizzlies is…actually quite large indeed. I mean, people are bad at geography, but even so.

Possibly this is the same universe as GTA, and so since GTA’s cities are thinly veiled versions of actual cities (perhaps for the somewhat logical reason that there’s a large crossover between people who play those games and people who know the cities in question and would get nitpicky about the architecture or whatever), they figured the entire country should also be a thinly veiled version of itself? Only with the same name? I don’t think that necessarily follows, but…just grasping at straws here.

The other thing I can think of that could make it make sense is if they plan to extend this franchise forward into the more recent past and at some point include events that everyone knows didn’t happen, like “in 1977, the aliens invaded, and ever since we’ve been trying to convince them to buy our excess soybeans” or something, and build on that as they move into other games. But I would tend to doubt this is the case.

In short, I don’t know, but I agree with you that it nags at one, slightly.

SOOOOOOO realistic and accurate! Except when it’s obviously, intentionally, unrealistically wrong and inaccurate on major details.

Maybe they’re just trying to cover themselves in case minor details are also wrong.

Like nitpick deterrent: “Hey, we clearly did some stuff wrong on purpose, so how do you know that little error you just noticed wasn’t also intentional? Don’t bother bringing it to our attention, we already know and it’s part of our larger plan. President MacAllister signed off on it personally.”

Butch:

Well, if it’s nitpick deterrent, it backfired.

I’m gonna be at this car dealer all day. At least the coffee is acceptable.

Ok, cheats.

If you bought a paper from the guy in valentine, it has one.

See, I found this cryptic message in the Adler estate, way back in chapter one. I puzzled over it. I thought it was some clue to something. Couldn’t make heads or tails of it. And then, poking through the menus as I do, I find the cheat screen, everything locked. I fiddled, and it’s all “invalid cheat phrase.” “Phrase?” I think. So I punch in the weird phrase from the estate and voila.

So now, I see a weird phrase I try it. And there was a weird phrase on the very bottom of the back page of the paper.

It does not say “cheat code.” It’s just there looking weird.

Feminina:

It did kind of backfire. At least with us. I’d have to read more reviews to see if anyone else was annoyed, but I’m probably not going to get around to doing that.

OK…weird phrase, menu, cheat screen. I’ll be sure to get right on that.

Check back in a couple of weeks and see if I’ve remembered it. I’m probably too busy going to vaudeville shows in the big city.

What, exactly, are the cheat codes for? Anything we actually care about?

Butch:

There isn’t a menu option per se. On one screen, either help, story or player, there’s an option at the bottom to hit triangle for cheats. That calls up the screen.

I think they’re there in lieu of an easier difficulty, sort of a “break glass in case of reaper moment.” You can toggle them on and off. The two I have are “unlock a suite of stealth weapons” and “unlimited ammo” (that’s the one in the newspaper). Could be handy. There’s about twenty I haven’t unlocked.

I kinda like that. Instead of just “easy,” it lets you pick what advantages you want, to tailor how easy. Nice.

Vaudeville? Wait, you’re in a big city? How much have you played?

Feminina:

It is kind of nice. Sort of along the same lines as setting the difficulty for different aspects separately, as we just talked about with SotTR. Having problems with just one thing that drives you bonkers and makes you want to quit the game? Make that one thing less difficult!

I’ll be sure to check it out.

I haven’t played all that much, but once you get past the tutorial sections you can pretty much go wherever you want, and I sort of accidentally ended up on a train to the big city. While there, I obviously decided to take in a vaudeville show, because I enjoy fine entertainment as much as the next grizzled outlaw.

Butch:

Oh dear. You can magpie by train?

You’re doomed.

Did you get the biography of a gunslinger quest?

Feminina:

I did get that quest! And that’s exactly what sent me wandering off looking for other gunslingers to interview, and ending up on a train. It’ll happen to you too!

We’re doomed.

Butch:

I have a feeling I’ll have some stuff to say about that quest.

Still at the car dealership.

Feminina:

I can’t imagine why you would. It’s a nonevent, really. Nothing at all there about lies or legends or history and who writes it.

Butch:

And someone with a thing for pigs.

Feminina:

Yeeeesss…the pigs. Haven’t talked to him yet. Anxious to get his side of the story.

Butch:

I’m looking forward to anything at this point as I am still at the car dealership.

Well, at least there are no kids here. And I read a whole magazine.

Feminina:

Hey, sitting quietly reading a magazine! That’s a refreshing change of pace!

It’s gonna be great.