Spoilers for Cyseal-area plots in Divinity: Original Sin
We went to that cave you mentioned yesterday! It was…kind of inappropriate, I guess. And hey, better safe than sorry where impressionable young minds are concerned.
There was some loot, though (that guy had some skillbooks that were pretty good for me), and you were right, freeing the statues was way less complicated than we were thinking. A few magic missiles from my various Staffs of Magus did the trick.
Then we went back and dealt with the “Lord of Bones,” or, as he actually styles himself, the Baron of Bones. NO WONDER I didn’t recognize it when you first mentioned him–that wasn’t anywhere NEAR his correct title! Why, in the hierarchy of Bone Peerage, a Baron would hardly be seen TALKING to a Lord!
That’s the excuse I’m going with, anyway.
So he was still a major fight, but we were in a much better position now with a couple of levels on us, and we defeated him handily in the end.
I kind of love-hated his little bard. Those stupid songs were such a perfect nod to the ridiculous songs players come up with on the fly for D&D bards to sing. I mean, I don’t blame them. What are you supposed to sing to cast bard spells?
“Heal up, heal up, pretty soon you’ll feel better!”
“Fight harder, everyone, imagine the loot and the glory!”
I got nothin.’
This is the advantage of a bard who plays, say, a flute. Although the disadvantage is that you have to carry an instrument around. I think one time I had a bard who did interpretive dance? Or just chanted epic poetry, I can’t remember. I was definitely trying to get away from both the singing and the having to carry an instrument.
Anyway. That’s what we did.
Wow, you know I’ve had a bad morning when Femmy’s starting the blog posts.
That and I got nothing.
Yeah, it was more a precautionary shut down. I’m still stung from when, many years ago when Junior was wee, I was playing DAO and THOUGHT I was going to find a werewolf in that forest there and found a scantily clad forest spirit. You can’t be too careful.
Ooo! Skills! I need those.
I’m gonna do that when the kids are at school. Like, now.
As for the Lord/Baron–Oh, totally understandable. My bad.
Though really, he just should have been called “That guy behind the trap house.” The ghoul that guarded the lighthouse was “The ghoul that guards the lighthouse.” Let’s stay accurate.
But on that, did you notice the rather casual mention of “The twins joined by fire?” Like “He raised us all! The Ghoul that guards the lighthouse, the twins joined by fire…” and I thought “Yeah, big deal he’s dead wait who now?”
I’m gonna file that away, and you might know more than I do, but, just for a fleeting instant, I thought “Wait, did we speculate that Scarlett and Roderick are the same person?” But he’d recognize us if WE were the twins joined by fire, right?
I heard that speech a lot cuz I kept dying.
Should I go get Madora? Would a tank help?
The bard was just the right amount of annoying to be perfect. I kinda want to be a bard now.
In the “Bard’s Tale,” a game of yesteryear, you had to first find/buy an instrument before you could even DO bard songs. Maybe it’s cuz in those days they could only do 8-bit music and not singing.
Doooooo iiiiiiiiiit. See what you think about…that. He did have some good stuff to sell. And bought some of my junk.
As for the Baron, we’re a wizard (with a summon undead swordsman skill!), rogue, archer and a tank, so you don’t have to go all melee-heavy, but it never hurts to have a tank around in a big fight to pull attacks off the weaker folk. (That’s also what an undead swordsman is good for. If you have any summon elemental scrolls or anything? Maybe a good time to break those out. As you do doubt recall, there are a lot of enemies in that fight, and just distracting some of them for a couple of rounds with the summoned zombie was very helpful.)
Ah yes, the Twins-Joined-By-Fire. Based on some limited additional knowledge, I’m confident that’s not us. We haven’t met them out in the world yet, so I assume we need to fight them somewhere at some point, but they’re definitely something that is not us.
I mean, unless it’s us from the future after we were joined by fire. OK: I will say it’s definitely not RECOGNIZABLY us. And most likely not us at all, although one never knows. So…take that rock-solid information for what it’s worth, I guess.
Well. That was…different.
So Scarlett “joined” him. She got into the rock paper scissors thing, trying to charm Roderick who was all “But think of what we could learn!” It didn’t seem to accomplish much. But I bought some good stuff. Planning for the Baron, me.
I reserve themey discussion until I meet him again. And we will, I think.
Yup. Scarlett did the whole undead warrior trick. I enjoy the undead warrior trick.
Did you just charge everyone in or did you space guys out?
And oh…where the hell is the path to silverglen? Can’t find it. Does it involve speaking zombie to a dead bridge troll? Cuz I can’t figure out what that’s all about, either.
I sorta figured. Cuz he wasn’t all “Hey! Twins! How y’all doing?”
I should play more. Junior has a band concert tonight. Then it’s date night, then we have company over….damn this social life of mine!
Oh, nice! I wondered what would happen if I joined him, but I didn’t do it because it seemed sketchy. “I have better things to do! But definitely sell me some stuff.”
Then Bellegar was all “may you burn in hell for refusing me!” But I think it was pretty rhetorical, because he didn’t show any inclination to attack, and he totally still sold me stuff. The Bellegarettes were…interesting. The most inappropriate thing was how they’d all saunter by and say their lines at the same time about every 30 seconds, the whole time I was trading with him. Got old.
Undead warriors rock. You don’t even have to feel that bad when they get killed because hey, they’re already dead! I mean, I always try to imagine that if you summon a wolf or whatever and it dies fighting for you, it’s really just that it returned to its native plane or whatever, because otherwise that pretty much sucks.
“Hey, random creature I just yanked away from possibly caring for your cubs or something, get into this battle against people you know and care nothing about and die for me! Hope you nuzzled those cubs goodbye as I teleported you to your doom.”
Man, we’re terrible people.
You’re close! Silverglen IS on the other side of the bridge with the zombie troll, but we just killed that troll, so I don’t know anything about speaking to it.
Man, we’re terrible people.
Anyway, go over that bridge and into that burning area on the other side, and caaaaaarefully follow the non-burning paths up, up, as far northerly as you can on the map. (It’s possible one or more of us may have accidentally caught on fire there.) There’s a waypoint up there and one of those “reload to get to a new area” moments.
You’ll be in that region anyway once you’re done with the Baron of Bones!
Oh, and with the Baron, we sent the tank and the archer ahead of the rogue and the wizard, but not by much–we were all basically in the same place. The rogue and the wizard just hung back on the steps a bit. I didn’t even have Wolgraff invisibly teleporting or anything, he just zapped people with his wands (good call on the wands for him).
That’s what Scarlett said! But Roderick won the thing.
I wonder what would have happened if we didn’t have a woman….
What really sucked is that the Bellegarettes talked over Wolgraff and Bairdotr who had banter! Wolgraff looked on with admiration (I think) and Bairdotr was all “How can things so different find love? But, as they say about the serpent and the slug,” or something. I heard serpent and slug.
He told me he’d see me often in the world. Curious.
But that’s themey too!
YOU’RE a terrible person. I haven’t done the wolf trick yet.
Oh DUDE! I found a book called “How to speak troll,” so I just “graked” with him, knowing what was going on. I convinced him I was a zombie. Then I died in lava. How’d you not die in lava?
I will be over there? No battle under the church deal? I was expecting a battle under the church deal.
Oh yes, true, there IS a battle under the church. To be sure. Yes, certainly stop by the church on the way to Silverglen. There’s valuable plot information there.
I would say don’t worry a lot about the battle under the church, though. Take that how you will.
Though SHIT! It occurs to me I haven’t done the strange cave! At all! Levers!
See? We’re not in the same place! You cut ahead of me and I followed blindly!
So we’re back to “Sin is good,” or a very twisted view of original sin. The wizard obviously thinks he’s in paradise, an Eden. He’s happy! And when you denied him…whatever, something “sinful,” he said you’d burn in hell. When I offered him…whatever, even in a “Yeah, yeah, whatever, I’ll say I’m one of your women if you sell me scrolls” way, he a) promised me paradise and b) LEFT HIS EDEN and that was a GOOD thing.
That’s backwards, right? It’s supposed to be that knowledge of carnal whatever is sin, ORIGINAL sin, even, which is kinda in the title of the game, and THAT’S what gets you hell and cast out of paradise into this realm. You’re supposed to get the “good” outcome by being, well, good.
This certainly seems to be a recurring theme in this game. I want to see where they go with it.
That is true! I forgot about the strange cave too!
Well…it’ll still be there after the Baron of Bones. It is not main quest-y, so it’s really kind of irrelevant to this discussion.
And yes, Bellegar said he was happy and content, but he still told me he was on his way out as soon as he was done trading with me, essentially. So it wasn’t really so awesome that he didn’t want to move on in the world. Certainly he seemed to have crafted a nice little space for himself, full of everything he desired (which apparently was mostly to be fawned over by beautiful women), but was he really as happy as he claimed?
I’m just so used to being in lockstep with you! I’m never behind you!
Still. The damn Baron has killed me so many times I feel the need to get as jacked as I can before I go there. Cave ahoy!
Dude….do not set me up for jokes like that on Friday. Don’t. I have to keep it together, here. There’s a band concert tonight.
Though, on stuff he said, what did you make of his “I’ve seen thousands of places, thousands of cities” etc. stuff? There, again, we have some idea that the game world isn’t alone. There might be our world in there, too. And maybe our world is the real one.
Recurrent themes keep recurring.
When he told you he was on his way out, was he happy? Cuz he sure was happy with me.
He seemed very chipper, yeah. “I’m out of here! This is going to be great! I hope you burn in hell, but also we’ll talk when we meet again!” All in rhymes, of course.
Seemed a pleasant enough fellow. He WAS imprisoned in a cave guarded by demons, so I’m sure there’s more to the story, but he’s not currently on my enemies list. He sold me some good skills, after all. I forgive a lot for that. I can now petrify people and/or make them spontaneously combust with the power of magic! Man, I love wizardry.
And yeah, his comment about having seen many places is certainly suggestive. I mean, he could just be talking about things like the seasonal planes we already know exist, but maybe he means (our) Japan! Perhaps he’ll tell us more when we meet again, which he certainly seemed to feel that we would.
Hmm. Still, I’m sticking with my interpretation of themes here. I’m very curious to see where this goes.
After all, “goes” is the thing, right? Now that you’re in silverglen proper, on the other side, it feels like part 2 (or 3 or whatever), yes?
Ah, man! I knew I should’ve gotten that one! But, for some reason, I seem to be out of money. I think I was cleaned out of, like, EVERYTHING after the Evelyn fight, and overbought to compensate. It happens. I have a bunch of stuff to identify. Maybe I’ll sell some. I’m still there, after all.
He said something like “ten thousand.” That seems to imply more than, like, four seasonal planes.
I’m very curious to see said planes. They might be very different.
We’re not actually in Silverglen…we defeated the Baron and called it a night, so we’re still sitting on the stairs there surrounded by bits of bone and zombie flesh, catching our breath and sorting through the loot we just picked up.
Silverglen next, maybe. We are right there in that general area. But at the moment, I don’t know if it’s going to be stage two and the end of the Hinterlands, or not.
As for everything being on fire on the other side of the troll bridge, it totally is! But there are little thin paths through the flaming woods. It’s possible to travel there, very cautiously.
Oh this is all very exciting!
That troll also leads me to believe that we are just NOT supposed to go there until we’re done.
Arhu said what?
“Dudes….DUDES. You walk right past the main quest point, you kill/talk down a seriously bad thing, you walk through lava, and you STILL don’t get you’re not supposed to be here? For real? How on EARTH did you get to level eight????”
Hey, the troll was pretty easy to kill, so that wasn’t any particular warning, and as for the fires, well, maybe the game just wanted to make sure we could watch where we were going. I regret nothing.
I can explain to the troll. I can talk to the troll in his own language.
Which is an interesting tonal shift. In this case, you CAN succeed by doing the “right” thing, the peaceful thing, but you have to either work to find the book or get lucky and stumble across it.
Which also dovetails with those ghosts who are right there by the bridge to Silverglen. Have you dealt with them? Cuz there’s some degree of that “Well you COULD do the right thing” there.
The ghosts that are complaining about how one of them misses his cat so much?
We talked to them, and figured “well, if we ever find that cat…”
But we didn’t encounter any other ghosts around there, I don’t think.
The ghost who’s all “Why would we want to go to the afterlife when it’s so nice here?” over and over and over, as NPCs do. They’re green.
And yes, there’s a cat. But you don’t NEED the cat….so if you’ve done it, there’s some theme going on.
Right, those ghosts. You don’t need the cat? It kind of seemed like they all really wished that one guy would get his cat so the rest of them could stop hearing about it. We probably misunderstood.
And yeah, back to a previous point, being able to talk to the troll if you happen to have found a book is an interesting addition. Kind of like being able to talk to animals: it’s not entirely a matter of you actively choosing to ‘sin’ or ‘not sin,’ (or to make the violent/nonviolent choice) — it’s also a matter of the information you have to work with. With incomplete information, sometimes we make a choice we wouldn’t have made if we knew more.
Is this a kind of “sometimes you will sin because you don’t know any better” note?
If so, it’s complicated by the additional fact that not knowing better doesn’t entirely let us off the hook for the sin, because we COULD have known better if we’d taken the time to research the matter or to loot properly or whatever. (Or, in the case of anything that happens to animals, we could have taken that talent.)
Yes, we killed the troll because we didn’t know we could talk to it, but whose fault was that? Did we stop to ask whether we MIGHT be able to talk to it? Did we explore for other options? Check around for language books? No.
So yeah, we acted out of ignorance rather than active desire to sin (it wasn’t a matter of “I’m killing this troll even though I could talk to it, because I like killing things!”), but our ignorance was a result of our own choices, so we still bear some responsibility.
Not…need….but I can see the quest going differently if you can talk to the cat. Not just in a “we’ll get to the same point the same way” sense, either.
And I think the differences would have some degree of theme.
Deal with those ghosts. Or not. We’ll talk. Later.
And theme…BUT….and there’s always a but….when I found the book it was dumb luck. It wasn’t that I was lazy all “Hey, if I actively explore for other options I will have other options.” It was one of those “Scarlett has noticed something” (and even that becomes a loaded term in this sense). So this isn’t a failure to loot (or do anything) properly. It’s “I could be good cuz I was lucky.”
See also talking to cats and stuff. Lazy/choices are “Well, I COULD go over there and learn some stuff, but fuck it I’m just gonna kill everyone.” There’s no way to know that talking to the cat makes you better. Shit, go back and read carefully. Even I haven’t told you that it would. I know what I know and even I’m not sure if it’s a good/bad thing, as I haven’t finished the quest. So even that is a question of a series of lucky events, not really choices. You could have known better if the dice roll had been different when you walked by the book. You could have known better if you were lucky enough to notice that rat when you had the skill. But luck. Not choices.
And, since we’re on ignorance…..
When Eve ate the apple, the “sin” she got was knowledge. Here, we’re talking on knowledge helping us make the “right” decisions. We run the risk of making “bad” decisions because of ignorance, “sinning” because of ignorance, when knowledge WAS the original sin, and ignorance was bliss.
Now, because I’m a sinning heathen myself, I have forgotten: Did Eve know what she was getting into? Yes, she was told “Don’t eat that,” but was she told “If you eat that you will learn all sorts of stuff?” Or did she not know WHY she was supposed to leave the apple be?
Interesting…all right, maybe we’ll talk to the ghosts again, since we’re already in the area.
If I recall correctly, God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple (or, well, in the Bible it’s not specifically an apple, just “the fruit of that tree God says not to touch”) or they would die.
The serpent told Eve that if she ate the fruit she would surely not die, but would be like unto God, knowing good from evil.
So God didn’t specifically say “knowledge is bad so don’t do it,” but the implication is certainly that God didn’t want them to have that knowledge. (Except he must have, because he’s all-knowing and all-powerful and so he allowed the serpent to tempt Eve knowing what would happen…whatever.)
On the other hand, the serpent did say “knowledge is good so do it” or more specifically I suppose, “knowledge is power so do it.” So unlike God, the serpent/Satan presented the fruit as knowledge, and knowledge as something worth having.
Which, going back to your question of whether knowledge really helps us not sin, and how much we can, really, be blamed for not having specific knowledge…hm.
Knowledge makes sin more complicated, that’s for sure. In the beginning, there was only one sin: disobeying God’s one specific order.
But once that was done, and humans had KNOWLEDGE, there were so many other possible sins! So many other things it turned out God didn’t want them doing! (Or, I guess, in the theological perspective, so many things God always forbade in theory, but that it would never have actually occurred to them to do before.)